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Thread: Item # 14 - 2010-11 Provincial YCC Qualifiers to the 2011 CYCC

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    Default Item # 14 - 2010-11 Provincial YCC Qualifiers to the 2011 CYCC

    Item # 14 - 2010-11 Provincial YCC Qualifiers to the 2011 CYCC

    The introductory post is by Michael Barron, Youth Coordinator

    I would like to remind you about Motion 2009-13 Re: CYCC Qualifiers (Ellen Nadeau / David Lavin) passed at the CFC AGM 2009 in Edmonton:
    The motion to replace the Articles 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006 of the CFC Handbook as follows:
    Will participate in the CYCC 2010 and subsequent CYCC’s, only:
    - the qualifiers from that years YCC’s,
    - the qualifiers from the CYCC to the WYCC of the previous year,
    - the highest rating of each age category (open and female) of each province (as of May 1st prior to the CYCC),
    - three players for each category nominated by the host organizer.

    Guidelines for YCC qualifiers for CYCC:

    CFC Agrees to:
    send 36 medals (3 medals for each of the 12 sections),
    send 36 certificates for the winners,
    send 1 CFC Organizers shirt,
    send one sack (16 pieces) of key chains as small door prizes,
    rate the tournament upon payment of dues.

    Organizer Agrees to:
    mention CFC in media and publicity,
    rate the tournament CFC,
    pay dues after the tournament.

    Fee structure between CFC and Organizer :
    After the tournament the organizer sends $6 per participant to the CFC Youth Program but must send a minimum $200 and only to a maximum of $400.
    If the tournament is submitted electronically using Swiss Sys there is no additional rating fee. If the submission is other than electronic Swiss Sys then organizers must pay $1 per player above the series dues.

    EXAMPLE OF COSTS
    Players $ per player $ to CFC Youth Program
    With Swiss Sys w/o Swiss Sys, add
    30 $6 $200 $200 + $30
    40 $6 $240 $240 + $40
    60 $6 $360 $360 + $60
    105 $6 $400 $400 + $105

    Sections:
    U8 Open and Girls
    U10 Open and Girls
    U12 Open and Girls
    U14 Open and Girls
    U16 Open and Girls
    U18 Open and Girls

    Age is determined as of Dec 31st 2010, for the 2011 series.
    Organizers may combine sections depending upon the number of participants or tradition in their region. This may be Girls and Open sections together or more than one Open and Girls sections combined as necessary for the pairing. Each of the 12 sections may have the first three places as winners of medals, certificates and invitations to the CYCC 2011.
    The format is a 5 round swiss (RR as required). There are advantages to having 90 min + 30 sec increment time control to prepare the players for the CYCC, but tradition or regional needs may go with a shorter time control i.e. 30 min/game to accommodate a one day tournament.

    Suggested Fee Structure/Prize Fund:
    Prize Fund is up to the organizers and depends upon costs incurred for tournament site.
    This is meant as a guideline to help new organizers plan.

    $20-$30 per player should be for CYCC registration of top players (60 players x $20= $1200 or $100 towards 12 sections 1st place CYCC Entry Fee: 60 x $30 = $1800 or $150 toward CYCC EF) if there are fewer than 60 players this is difficult.
    $6 per player for CFC Youth Program.
    So Entry Fee should be $26- $36+ expenses and any organizer ‘s share, which makes it a $45- $70 Entry Fee.
    Once the winners have confirmed and registered participation at the CYCC, the CFC Youth Coordinator will facilitate payment from YCC organizers to CYCC organizer.

    Pairing with Swiss Sys:
    Swiss Sys Pairing program is provided free of charge to organizers of a CFC rated event and using Swiss Sys will cut costs when submitting the results for rating.
    Here is the URL for the procedure to get a copy of Swiss Sys for a tournament.
    http://www.chess.ca/swisssys.htm

    Good tournament conditions:
    First and Foremost: the organizers and the participants should have fun.
    The most important conditions for the players include quiet, good air quality and good lighting. Parents need a place to be able to congregate without disrupting play and should be separated from the players. This is much better for players, Tournament Directors and the parents.
    For more detailed descriptions of good tournament conditions please see
    http://www.chess.ca/section_9.htm



    Thanks to Ellen Nadeau for preparing these Guidelines!

    I would like to ask all Governors and Provincial organizations to encourage local chess organizers to have at least one YCC qualifier in every Province fo facilitate local youth chess and qualify best local players for Canadian Championship.

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    Default "YCC" events

    The problem with this structure is in areas where there may not be any YCC events organized.
    How can we penalize our youth players that live in areas where no-one runs a YCC event?
    ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
    Patrick McDonald
    International Arbiter
    International Organizer

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    For interested players that come from provinces which do not hold YCCs, I imagine we would simply allow the representatives to be nominated by the corresponding executive. Patrick does raise a good point, however, and we should probably introduce a slight amendment to the current wording in the CFC Handbook.

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    It would seem almost certain that this format is going to reduce the number of participants in the CYCC, and the event will no longer be able to completely fund the winners to the WYCC.

    Was this thought about at the time ?
    Last edited by Fred McKim; 10-03-2010 at 10:49 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Provincial YCC Structure Revenue Projection

    Hi Fred:

    At the time of the motion in May 2009, I did for myself, and it was sent to Ellen Nadeau, the following report:

    A CYCC Revenue Comparison: Old System vs Reformed System
    ( prepared by Bob Armstrong )

    Revision 2, May 21, 2009

    Attempt at Reconstructing CFC Revenue from Past CYCC’s

    The average no. of players in a CYCC, using the last 5 year stats, is approx. 150 players.

    Remitted to CFC out of CYCC entry registration - $ 100

    Revenue: 150 X $ 100 = $ 15,000

    Projected CFC Revenue Under Proposed Reform ( Motion 2009-13 )

    Motion 2009-13 Re: CYCC Qualifiers
    (Ellen Nadeau / David Lavin)
    The motion to replace the Articles 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006 of the CFC handbook is as follows:
    Will participate in the CYCC 2010 and subsequent CYCCs, only:
    -the qualifiers from that years YCCs
    -the qualifiers from the CYCC to the WYCC of the previous year
    -the highest rating of each age category (open and female) of each province(as of May 1st prior to
    the CYCC)

    Calculation:
    A) from CYCC

    Item 1 : Top 3 qualifiers from that year’s YCC’s = 12 ( 6 groups, open & female ) X 3 winners x 10 provinces = 360 players.
    Item 2 : Top 3 qualifiers to WYCC from CYCC previous year = 12 ( 6 groups, open & female ) X 3 winners = 36
    Item 3 : No. of Highest Rating from Provinces = 12 ( 6 groups, open & female ) X 10 provinces = 120.

    Maximum Total ( If all eligible attend ): 360 + 36 + 120 = 516

    Remitted to CFC out of CYCC entry registration - $ 125 ( minimum starting in 2009 )

    Revenue : 516 X $ 125 = $ 64.500

    B) from YCC’s

    Assume an average of 6 players ( admittedly a somewhat random number ) per 12 groups X 10 provinces = 720 players

    Remitted to CFC per YCC player - $ 6 per player X 720 players = $ 4,320
    ( Note: it may be slightly less than this because there is a maximum remittance per YCC of $ 400; also there is a cheaper remittance option of $ 4 per player ).

    C) Total Revenue: $ 68,820 !!??

    Questions: We are expecting each province to send approx. 48 players or a total of approx. 480 ( a few less due to overlapping ) players. How realistic is that? How can this be when the average has historically been over the last 5 years, 150 players. And a large portion of the 150 have been from the home province of the CYCC. Moreover, Governor Ken Craft has raised the concern about this motion that some provinces do not have the infrastructure to hold a provincial YCC. Is he right? Will some provinces not participate? We have also seen that some groups ( especially female ) have difficulty getting participants – will that affect numbers? And how many parents of the “ qualifiers “ will be willing to bear the cost of attending the CYCC, wherever it is held. The figure of over 450 players in the CYCC is obviously wildly optimistic, though these are the numbers who can qualify.
    The main issue though is whether the new system can at least generate as many funds towards prizes as the old system. So lets assume , rather than over 450, a number less than the average no. of the last 5 years, which is 150. I will choose 100 players – it is below the average because players are limited to at least 3 per group from each province, eliminating those home province players who now would not be entitled to play. I feel 100 is achievable under the new system ( it would be approx. 22% of the number entitled ).

    Revised Reform Revenue Projection Based on Lower Anticipated Turnout

    A ) from CYCC – 100 players @ $ 125 = $ 12,500 ( note: the average CYCC has been 153 players )
    B ) from YCC’s - $ 4, 320
    C) Total Revenue - $ 16,820.

    Revenue Comparison:

    Old System - $ 15,000
    Reformed System - $ 16,820

    Conclusion

    The reformed system will produce at least as much prize funding toward the WYCC as did the prior system.

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    I believe the 2010 CYCC revenue was $20,000 (off the top of my head).

    I don't think it will work. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred McKim
    I believe the 2010 CYCC revenue was $20,000 (off the top of my head).

    I don't think it will work. Sorry.
    Sorry, Fred, I have different opinion.

    First, the proposed system won't penalize our youth players that live in areas where no-one runs a YCC event.
    It just will encourage all provincial organizations to organize such events.
    By the way, such event could be run by the parents of our youth players - just like Patrick McDonald and Ellen Nadeau did it for their kids...

    Second, the proposed system allows all provinces to be represented in any case - the highest rating of each age category (open and female) of each province will participate.

    Third, we could introduce a slight amendment to the current wording - for example:
    The CFC Executive could allow a player to participate at the CYCC without qualification in exceptional circumstances.

    Forth, the proposed system doesn't really limit participation - as Bob's calculation shows, Maximum Total is 516 players!
    So, the total revenue will be about $4,000 higher than current system without qualification.

    The real goal of the proposed system is to encourage provincial, regional and local chess organizations to run more youth events of different levels and get more kids to play more chess.
    Thanks,
    Michael Barron

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    The goals are admirable, and if all provinces were as organized as Ontario, things would be great.

    Were the various provinces polled to see how many would hold events ?

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    I see this as ambitious and worthwhile.
    Bob Armstrong's analysis suggests that it will most likely be revenue-positive. It will be important to monitor and do everything possible to maintain participation close to current level. What was the participation in 2010?

    One question: using the international time control is important. It gives our players experience with it, including those who will represent Canada. I do not think that a one-day option at 30 minutes per player should be included. At least a full week-end or equivalent is more appropriate. I don't think players travelling a long distance, many with their parents, will appreciate a one-day rushed event.

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    I think future analysis should include looking at which provinces will be holding YCC events. I wouldn't expect any to be held under the proposed format in the 4 Atlantic provinces, due to insufficient numbers of players to meet cost. As well cost of $20 - $30 is unrealistic for those without likely chance of qualifying.

    So I think the analysis is really looking at whether the Ontario YCC and possibly Alberta or BC YCC will meet the cost of the missing players.

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