Item # 14 - 2010-11 Provincial YCC Qualifiers to the 2011 CYCC

[Michael Barron]

The goals are admirable, and if all provinces were as organized as Ontario, things would be great.

Were the various provinces polled to see how many would hold events ?

We could do it right now.
The Assembly of Governors includes representatives from all provincial chess organizations.

Which provincial chess organizations don't want YCC in their provinces and why?

[Michael Barron]

I see this as ambitious and worthwhile.
Bob Armstrong's analysis suggests that it will most likely be revenue-positive. It will be important to monitor and do everything possible to maintain participation close to current level. What was the participation in 2010?

One question: using the international time control is important. It gives our players experience with it, including those who will represent Canada. I do not think that a one-day option at 30 minutes per player should be included. At least a full week-end or equivalent is more appropriate. I don't think players travelling a long distance, many with their parents, will appreciate a one-day rushed event.

This is a good question, Christopher!

I agree with you - using the international time control is preferable.
However, the local traditions and possibilities could be different, and we can't impose strict requirements, at least not in the first year.

Let's leave such decisions for local organizers for now.

[Michael Barron]

I think future analysis should include looking at which provinces will be holding YCC events. I wouldn't expect any to be held under the proposed format in the 4 Atlantic provinces, due to insufficient numbers of players to meet cost. As well cost of $20 - $30 is unrealistic for those without likely chance of qualifying.

So I think the analysis is really looking at whether the Ontario YCC and possibly Alberta or BC YCC will meet the cost of the missing players.

Fred,

Let's clarify:
Are you arguing that 4 Atlantic provinces don't need any youth chess tournaments?
How can we develop youth chess in these provinces in this case?

[Valer Eugen Demian]

I think future analysis should include looking at which provinces will be holding YCC events. I wouldn't expect any to be held under the proposed format in the 4 Atlantic provinces, due to insufficient numbers of players to meet cost. As well cost of $20 - $30 is unrealistic for those without likely chance of qualifying.

So I think the analysis is really looking at whether the Ontario YCC and possibly Alberta or BC YCC will meet the cost of the missing players.

BC has been holding the BCYCC for years in a row (!!) as the mandatory step for participating at CYCC. Of course there was a minority of players who by-passed BCYCC every now and then, but their number was insignificant.

Basically we have to compete with the well establishd Chess and Math system of regionals and provincials, where only the 1st place from each grade goes to the nationals. The entry fees required are comparable and still every year the Chess and Math provincial beats in numbers the BCYCC by more than 2 times. Without debating too much on the value of each tournament and available percentages for qualifying at the nationals, I think we must keep the value of BCYCC. The regionals have already disappeared in the Greater Vancouver Area...

[Fred McKim]

If I held a YCC PEI would not be able to generate $200 towards the CYCC. There is no interest at present towards players participating in CYCC. Our representatives would be in the bottom quarter of every age group.

It should be noted that I held PEI Youth Chess Championships abount 10 years ago, but stopped when the number of particpants dropped below 10.

Historically I think we've had less than 5 particpants in the CYCC.

I wished we were ready for this system, but I just don't know if it is cash neutral as it's supporters claim.

[Ken Craft]

I doubt NB will be holding a qualifier. I think I remember voting against this motion.

[Fred McKim]

Somebody needs to do the math. Go back through the past few CYCC's and see how many players would be eliminated (probably mostly from ON). See how many provinces might hold a YCC based on their participation levels at the CYCC.

[Daxin Jin]

One question: using the international time control is important. It gives our players experience with it, including those who will represent Canada. I do not think that a one-day option at 30 minutes per player should be included. At least a full week-end or equivalent is more appropriate. I don't think players travelling a long distance, many with their parents, will appreciate a one-day rushed event.[/QUOTE]
I agree with Christopher, even not in major provincials like Ont, BC, and Albert still need take seriouse for the CFC tournament. 30 minutes per player looks like chess&math that only hold in their field. If we prepare players who are going to world chess stage already need follow FIDE Rules from YCC.
As Michal Barron said YCC still important to let all players of their age section participate in serious chess with experience that no possible to have in Open tournaments. His four point could cover all questions. Increase the number players of CYCC should begin with local chess club who lead youth players in CFC rated. There still very few tournaments for Youth players in Canada. Keep more YCC tournaments and give more qualifiers from YCC.

[Michael Barron]

Somebody needs to do the math. Go back through the past few CYCC's and see how many players would be eliminated (probably mostly from ON). See how many provinces might hold a YCC based on their participation levels at the CYCC.

Fred,

No players would be eliminated.
Let me repeat:
The intent of the Motion - to encourage local organizers to run more youth tournaments.

Such province as Ontario could run many YCC qualifiers.
It already has Ontario YCC in Kitchener and North Ontario YCC in Kapuskasing for many years.
I know people who're contemplating organizing YCC qualifiers in Toronto and Windsor.
If there is sufficient interest, such tournament could be organized in Ottawa too.

Money is not a problem as well.

The approved rule says:
"Will participate in the CYCC 2010 and subsequent CYCC’s, only:
- the qualifiers from that years YCC’s,
- the qualifiers from the CYCC to the WYCC of the previous year,
- the highest rating of each age category (open and female) of each province (as of May 1st prior to the CYCC),
- three players for each category nominated by the host organizer."

It says nothing about money.
All other provisions are only Guidelines, and could be changed on organizer's request.

A minimum $200 payment supposed to cover CFC's expenses for promotional package:
36 medals (3 medals for each of the 12 sections),
36 certificates for the winners,
1 CFC Organizers shirt,
one sack (16 pieces) of key chains as small door prizes.

If you feel that YCC PEI would not be able to generate $200 towards the CYCC - forget about it!
Just run it as a regular CFC event for youth players in your province and help them to qualify for CYCC.

What we need - more kids to play more chess!
And medals and certificates they could win at the CYCC...

[Ellen Nadeau]

YCC reinstatement was proposed by me and approved by the Governors with the idea that the YCC becomes a ADVERTIZING event for the CYCC not an elimination process.

Costs: Bob you cannot take the $6 per player revenue and figure it goes to WYCor CYCC. The package items :medals,certificates,CFC shirt,keychains must be paid for. The cost were calculated to be revenue neutral.

Fred McKim, there is no reason Atlantic Canada cannot afford to run this tournament. I suggested a $30-$40 registration fee if the organizer hoped to help pay entries to the CYCC. If an organizer has a free room for the tournament he can charge $4 per player which goes to the CFC and covers rating. For the $4 he does not receive a package so there is no loss for the CFC and no high expenses to the organizer.


I agree tha long time controls for YCC are ideal but would not support forcing this as regional organizers know what their local players can support. IE John Rutherford would not hold a YCC over 3-4 days. This would eliminate potential players from the CYCC. Our CYCC event must be of international standards.