Item # 16 - CFC Membership Fee / Tournament Playing Fee ( = tournament membership )

[Bob Gillanders]

Aris,

Contrary to urban legend, most members do not find the CFC membership dues excessive. In fact, they are very reasonable, even cheap. The adult dues of $36 have not been raised for many years. Actually getting cheaper with inflation.

The vocal minority that complain $36 is expensive, would also complain if it was $30, would still complain if it was $25, would still complain at $20, and again at $15, and maybe even at $10,......you get the idea.

Some Juniors will be paying more this year with the cancellation of the Junior Participating membership. So let's not hit them with another increase too soon.

The issue is not one of cost, but of fairness. We need to think very seriously before making any changes with the membership vs. rating fee split. I have not heard a serious proposal yet that is free of danger. We need to protect our revenue base.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Aris:

The May 1 membership stats are on the CFC Website: http://www.chess.ca/MemStats.shtml

Bob

[Aris Marghetis]

Aris,

Contrary to urban legend, most members do not find the CFC membership dues excessive. In fact, they are very reasonable, even cheap. The adult dues of $36 have not been raised for many years. Actually getting cheaper with inflation.

The vocal minority that complain $36 is expensive, would also complain if it was $30, would still complain if it was $25, would still complain at $20, and again at $15, and maybe even at $10,......you get the idea.

Some Juniors will be paying more this year with the cancellation of the Junior Participating membership. So let's not hit them with another increase too soon.

The issue is not one of cost, but of fairness. We need to think very seriously before making any changes with the membership vs. rating fee split. I have not heard a serious proposal yet that is free of danger. We need to protect our revenue base.

Hi Bob, I respectfully disagree on a few points, expressed above, as folllows :

1) That is not an urban legend, and I am quite surprised to see that claim! Most CFC members bemoan they are not getting $36 worth from the CFC.

2) This is different from finding dues are excessive. People are feeling ripped off with reduction in services (for example, the printed magazine) coupled with unexplainably high rating costs. On the other hand, resetting to a lower annual membership for the average person, will increase goodwill to the CFC!

3) Juniors is not the same as students, for example. Like for almost any other recreational activity, it is the parents paying for juniors, not little kids out of their allowance. Why do I pay more for my kid to play hockey than I would pay for me, but I pay significantly less for my kid to play chess? This seems so unfair, and think of the positive reaction to a lower rate for Joe Regular!

4) Please note that I am not encouraging any increase to the rating fees!

5) Would you know how many of each type of member we currently have?

[Aris Marghetis]

Hi Aris:

I just draw to your attention that under the meeting procedures, motions must be brought before 9:00 PM EDT on Monday, Oct. 4. This is when voting starts on all motions, and so none can be filed after that time.

If a member wants to initiate a motion, they need only find a seconder, and then post under the relevant thread the exact wording of their motion. I will then separate it out into a new " voting thread " of its own for Monday night. This has already happened under the Elimination of Life Governors thread, where Les Bunning/Lyle Craver have now launced a motion.

Bob

Replace the membership rates for Adult, Family, Junior; with a single new annual CFC membership rate, whose federal portion would reduce to $30.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Aris:

This seems to be sufficiently worded for a formal motion. But you need to post who your seconder of the motion is before I can put it on the agenda for voting.

Bob

[Aris Marghetis]

Hi Aris:

This seems to be sufficiently worded for a formal motion. But you need to post who your seconder of the motion is before I can put it on the agenda for voting.

Bob

Well, I'm waiting for a seconder to step forward. If no one does, it dies!

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Gentlemen, I think we fail to see the forest from the trees!...

An organization such as CFC - or any other Canadian organization - needs members to exist. These members have to pay a fee to benefit from the services provided; in CFC's case those are:
- organized chess
- website
- magazine (pdf format)
- official rating of value (and not you Tom, Dick and Harry server rating...)
- official link to FIDE and international chess
- other benefits I am forgetting now
In conclusion regardless of their number they exist and someone wishing to take advantage of them must pay!

Asking to eliminate the CFC membership is absolutely ilogical. This must be kept, together with the provincial membership. One should not be able to play without being a member of both: provincial organization and CFC. If they do not want to be, they are free to play in the park, over the internet (where in most places you have to pay anyway...) or during a barbeque with their friends.

The tournament playing fee should be decided by organizers based on their expenses. I am sure we can find out what are the most likely amounts required for an average local tournament to break even based on the experience of all TDs around here.

I fail to see why someone would complain while showing up for the first time to a tournament site and finding out it needs to be a member in the federations sanctioning that tournament, as well as to cover the tournament fee (his quota for playing in it). I was and still am one of the few who believe amateur Canadian chess players are some of the cheapest and speak from personal experience. It is sad to say this and my only hope actually is for the new generation we fight tooth and nail to raise properly!

Meantime the fees (whatever amount we decide) must stay!

[Christopher Mallon]

Aris, I will second your motion with whatever final wording you decide upon, based on a $30 annual rate.

[Bob Armstrong]

Aris & Chris:

I will post a motion tonight at 9:00 PM EDT as follows:

Motion 2011-B - Moved: Aris Marghetis; Seconded : Chris Mallon

Single Annual CFC Membership & Fee - that CFC replace the memberships for Adult, Family, and Junior, with a single new annual CFC membership, and the rate for the federal portion would be $30.

As Posting Secretary, I felt Aris' initial wording of his proposed motion needed some minor editing. I hope it is satisfactory to you. If you want to amend anything here, please let me know ASAP. If you don't post by noon EDT, I'll assume it is now OK, since I need to post it before voting starts tonight.

I will then post it as a new supplementary thread under this agenda item, so it gets displayed prominently, and the discussion can be separated out from the other topics and issues under this thread.

Bob

[Bob Armstrong]

I think it is important to hear from Fred, as CFC Treasurer, whether he believes the Marghetis/Mallon Single CFC Membership & Fee proposal will be revenue-neutral for CFC.

Bob