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View Full Version : 5A5 - DISCUSSION ITEMS - Youth Matters



Lyle Craver
12-14-2018, 12:44 AM
This thread is open for discussions on any other youth related topic. As always if there are enough postings on a particular subject we may move them into a thread of their own

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2018, 11:54 AM
The rules for CYCC Regional qualifiers are not clear, those regional qualifiers are no longer mentioned in the Handbook.

I have guessed that anybody can organized a Regional qualifier and that all participants with a score superior to 50% can go to Regina. The financial considerations are unclear, are all participants to the qualifier required to be CFC or FQE members ? How much of each registration is to be contributed to the Youth Fund ?

Vladimir Drkulec
12-16-2018, 12:38 PM
The rules for CYCC Regional qualifiers are not clear, those regional qualifiers are no longer mentioned in the Handbook.

I have guessed that anybody can organized an Regional qualifier and that all participants with a score superior to 50% can go to Regina. The financial considerations are unclear, are all participants to the qualifier required to be CFC or FQE members ? How much of each registration is to be contributed to the Youth Fund ?T

At this point, only CYCC, other Canadian Championships like the Canadian Junior, international play or tournaments where juniors play against adults require CFC memberships or equivalent.

Fred McKim
12-16-2018, 01:23 PM
T

At this point, only CYCC, other Canadian Championships like the Canadian Junior, international play or tournaments where juniors play against adults require CFC memberships or equivalent.

I think some/all National events require full CFC/FQE membership, and most regular tournaments allow the equivalent (single tournament fee)

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2018, 01:25 PM
Thank you!

This clarifies one point, the financial considerations still remains. Is there a mandatory entry fee and how much goes to the CFC ?

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2018, 01:28 PM
I think some/all National events require full CFC/FQE membership, and most regular tournaments allow the equivalent (single tournament fee)

Does this means that for a CYCC qualifier, the player must still pay the single tournament fee ?

Fred McKim
12-16-2018, 01:31 PM
Does this means that for a CYCC qualifier, the player must still pay the single tournament fee ?

I THINK the CYCC qualifiers are regular junior events, and no membership (or equivalent is required).

Lyle Craver
12-16-2018, 01:46 PM
This is the kind of thing that DEFINITELY needs clarified - we simply cannot have organizers in doubt and risk their events not being rated as a result. This was the single reason I thought the waiver was a bad idea (e.g. that it was too vague)

If that requires a motion - great. If it can be done as a clarification of existing policy - great.

But for sure something that basic needs to be crystal clear.

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2018, 02:32 PM
This is the kind of thing that DEFINITELY needs clarified - we simply cannot have organizers in doubt and risk their events not being rated as a result. This was the single reason I thought the waiver was a bad idea (e.g. that it was too vague)

If that requires a motion - great. If it can be done as a clarification of existing policy - great.

But for sure something that basic needs to be crystal clear.

I second the motion, if a seconder is required.

The risk is greater then having a tournament not rated, an kid qualification's could be jeopardized.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-16-2018, 02:42 PM
I second the motion, if a seconder is required.

The risk is greater then having a tournament not rated, an kid qualification's could be jeopardized.

The regulations seem pretty clear to me. You have to pay $2 per player with a cap for large events. $0.50 of that is a rating fee and is HST taxable. $1.50 is a youth fund contribution and no tax. No memberships are required.

Voting items require three weeks of notice so we could vote at the next meeting but we really need a coherent strategy for our youth events and fundraising to send teams to various tournaments.

Lyle Craver
12-16-2018, 04:32 PM
The original CYCC format was that qualifiers were SUPPOSED to fund travel costs for the next stage.

This was a critical element for organizers in BC / AB where our travel costs are the highest in the country barring the rare times they're held out our way. This is why I've always so opposed well-heeled parents buying their kids' ways to national events - it completely subverts the self-funding plan that in my view is fundamental to the CYCC concept. If a kid can bypass the qualifier they'll avoid the qualifier and I >don't< buy the argument that kids might not be able to play on a particular date - as a junior I couldn't play in all the events I was eligible for nor especially expected to. There was certainly no question of playing out of town unless someone arranged transport - my parents' participation in my junior career was that of chauffeur.

But for sure you want the maximum possible turnout for your qualifiers - CYCC is the direct descendant of (and was modelled after on a national scale) Lynn Stringer's C-FAX radio events of the 60s and 70s where the events collectively involved 2000-3000 kids a year with no event being significantly bigger than 50-60. You need to bear in mind the population of Victoria to realize what an achievement that was in the day.

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2018, 06:01 PM
The regulations seem pretty clear to me. You have to pay $2 per player with a cap for large events. $0.50 of that is a rating fee and is HST taxable. $1.50 is a youth fund contribution and no tax. No memberships are required.

Voting items require three weeks of notice so we could vote at the next meeting but we really need a coherent strategy for our youth events and fundraising to send teams to various tournaments.

Thank you! This is clear..

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2018, 06:37 PM
The original CYCC format was that qualifiers were SUPPOSED to fund travel costs for the next stage.



Montreal to Regina for one adult plus one child, the web site will not give me the price for an unaccompanied child, but one child, and one adult is cheaper the one adult. The price $554 per ticket, there are probably hidden fees such as GST and NAV Canada. There are six categories, U8, U10, U12, U14, U16, U18, with boys and girls, this makes 12 categories. If 3 players per category qualifies, we have 36 players and the total price of the airplane tickets would be $19,944 .

I am in favour of the principle that the qualifier should pay for the travel price, the problem is practical, where can I find $20,000 and this is very conservative, based on only 3 qualified players per section. Only CMA could afford such expenditure.

If you take into account the fact that Quebec has 17 regions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_Quebec) each of which could organize a regional qualifier, $339,048 would be required. Off course, many regions do not have any significant number of young players.

I live in region 14, but I cannot rule out opening the qualifier to the neighbouring regions 15 and 04, but I would still be unable to pay the travelling fess of everybody.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-16-2018, 06:54 PM
I don't think it is within the means of most of the qualifiers to pay for the next stage. My guess is that the typical qualifier has no more than 30 or 40 kids aside from large cities and provincial qualifiers.

Christopher Field
12-22-2018, 12:20 PM
The Ontario High School Chess Championship is also a CYCC Qualifier.
The organisers pay the $2 fee per player (50 cents rating + $1.50 to CYCC-Youth).
We have an annual turnout of 100-200 players, depending on whether or not other organisers respect our date.
2019: April 5-6 (Friday-Saturday).
Pantages Hotel - 200 Victoria St, Toronto. M5B 1V8

So far, as far as I know, there are no other youth events on this date.
I predict at least 160 players --> $240 (appr) to the youth fund.

But as a small non-profit, with limited sponsorship, the organisers could not afford a higher CYCC-qualifier fee.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-22-2018, 01:27 PM
To Chris Field, I don't think that we are looking at any large increases in fees for qualifiers and if they were increased it would be for next year as we like to give organizers plenty of notice.

The issue at the moment is the logistics of WCCC which China has set in mid to late August. There is likely to be a large demand to play in this tournament from extra players. We are going to have to set some limits on who can go. In theory, the executive should vote on each exception beyond the champion official players and those finishing second or third. In the last year or two, we seem to have gotten away from that. I think we are going to be a little more sticky about the rules this time. We are going to make the fees for players who don't attend CYCC quite a bit higher and we are going to limit the numbers to a manageable level. Due to visa considerations people will have to register well before CYCC.

Nikolay Noritsyn
12-22-2018, 07:04 PM
To Chris Field, I don't think that we are looking at any large increases in fees for qualifiers and if they were increased it would be for next year as we like to give organizers plenty of notice.

The issue at the moment is the logistics of WCCC which China has set in mid to late August. There is likely to be a large demand to play in this tournament from extra players. We are going to have to set some limits on who can go. In theory, the executive should vote on each exception beyond the champion official players and those finishing second or third. In the last year or two, we seem to have gotten away from that. I think we are going to be a little more sticky about the rules this time. We are going to make the fees for players who don't attend CYCC quite a bit higher and we are going to limit the numbers to a manageable level. Due to visa considerations people will have to register well before CYCC.

Whats the current situation?
- First place finishers in CYCC get X amount from CFC for their trip for the world's..
- second-third place?
- Kids that participated in CYCC, did not place in top 3, but still want to go..
- and kids that did not play in CYCC but still want to go

Vladimir Drkulec
12-23-2018, 12:21 PM
We usually cover tournament entry and organizer fees for first place plus give them enough to pay for airfare. I believe that in recent years we have been paying tournament entry and organizer fees for second and third place as well, given that most second and third place finishers do not go to Pan Am Youth or NAYCC.

Kids that play in CYCC but do not qualify have to pay a fee of $150 to go. They have to apply to the executive to go. Kids that do not play in CYCC and want to go have to pay $300 and have to apply to the executive in advance of CYCC to go with their reasons for not attending CYCC.