PDA

View Full Version : 5.F Impeachment of CFC president over rudeness to trolls on chesstalk



Vladimir Drkulec
05-26-2018, 12:57 PM
I received the following email from Garland Best. I discussed it with the executive and proposed a means whereby they might proceed with this if they wanted to but there did not appear to be any appetite for this idea.



I hereby submit the following motion:


Whereas on November 24th at 2:25PM, Vlad Drkulec, President of the Chess Federation of Canada, publicly compared someone to a person with autism as a form of insult on the chesstalk message board, and continues to repeatedly use public forums to insult and attack the character of persons;




Be it resolved that this behavior is not acceptable of the person representing the public face of the Chess Federation of Canada, and that the President should post a public apology for his actions, or step down from the Office of President of the Chess Federation of Canada.


Garland Best

Vladimir Drkulec
05-26-2018, 03:36 PM
As with any organization whether non-profit like the CFC or for profit, stories get told about the organization. Often these stories have no basis in reality like most of the stories that trolls try to peddle. Fortunately stories that have no basis in reality are easy enough to counteract IF you are willing to challenge them. If you do not challenge them then they are accepted as fact by the great majority of sleepy people who are not inclined to think deeply on such things. Challenging lies causes them to collapse upon themselves as there is seldom a sufficient framework to support these lies. The trolls usually don't have much staying power or even the basic grasp of logical argument. These sad individuals dry up and are blown away by a steady wind of truth. My job as CFC president is not to protect the sensitive feelings of lonely trolls who sit on the sidelines pondering novel ways to annoy those who are intent on doing.

My philosophy with regard to engaging with trolls is to challenge them head on. I want to make it an unpleasant experience for them. In actual fact, I tend to dial back on my posts because there is usually no need to treat them with the rich contempt which they actually deserve. In any forum where they can gain traction it is important to challenge them and show that you dissent with regard to their unique and often delusional interpretation of the truth. It would be best if we did not pretend that these people are worthy of humouring. They are destructive, lying and thoughtless human beings who try to increase their importance in people's minds by criticising those that do and pretending that they could somehow do better when the truth is that they are barely capable of functioning or even finding a place in the world with their greatest challenge being getting out of bed each day and facing the pain that inevitably arises out of their interactions with a cold and indifferent world.

Impeaching a president is not a small matter. We don't really have a procedure for it. It should not even be thought about because you disagree with the analogies that he uses or believe that you should be the arbiter of what he can say and discuss.

Chesstalk has changed ownership and has come out strongly against trolls who seem to have largely disappeared as a result (and good riddance to them).

I am not much inclined to apologize to Neil Frarey or any of the other chesstalk trolls. I certainly don't miss them since they have disappeared. Hopefully they have managed to find themselves a life which leaves them too busy to bother us.

Mark S. Dutton, I.A.
05-27-2018, 10:49 AM
As with any organization whether non-profit like the CFC or for profit, stories get told about the organization. Often these stories have no basis in reality like most of the stories that trolls try to peddle. Fortunately stories that have no basis in reality are easy enough to counteract IF you are willing to challenge them. If you do not challenge them then they are accepted as fact by the great majority of sleepy people who are not inclined to think deeply on such things. Challenging lies causes them to collapse upon themselves as there is seldom a sufficient framework to support these lies. The trolls usually don't have much staying power or even the basic grasp of logical argument. These sad individuals dry up and are blown away by a steady wind of truth. My job as CFC president is not to protect the sensitive feelings of lonely trolls who sit on the sidelines pondering novel ways to annoy those who are intent on doing.

My philosophy with regard to engaging with trolls is to challenge them head on. I want to make it an unpleasant experience for them. In actual fact, I tend to dial back on my posts because there is usually no need to treat them with the rich contempt which they actually deserve. In any forum where they can gain traction it is important to challenge them and show that you dissent with regard to their unique and often delusional interpretation of the truth. It would be best if we did not pretend that these people are worthy of humouring. They are destructive, lying and thoughtless human beings who try to increase their importance in people's minds by criticising those that do and pretending that they could somehow do better when the truth is that they are barely capable of functioning or even finding a place in the world with their greatest challenge being getting out of bed each day and facing the pain that inevitably arises out of their interactions with a cold and indifferent world.

Impeaching a president is not a small matter. We don't really have a procedure for it. It should not even be thought about because you disagree with the analogies that he uses or believe that you should be the arbiter of what he can say and discuss.

Chesstalk has changed ownership and has come out strongly against trolls who seem to have largely disappeared as a result (and good riddance to them).

I am not much inclined to apologize to Neil Frarey or any of the other chesstalk trolls. I certainly don't miss them since they have disappeared. Hopefully they have managed to find themselves a life which leaves them too busy to bother us.

EXACTLY Vlad --- No APOLOGY is required.

Very happy to see ChessTalk trolls shut down.

You have a done a good job at that. Carry on.

Mark S. Dutton, I.A., I.O.,
CFC Past President

Paul Leblanc
05-27-2018, 12:10 PM
This accusation is frivolous and undeserving of our attention.

Aris Marghetis
05-27-2018, 01:15 PM
This accusation is frivolous and undeserving of our attention.

I agree! Onward.

Vladimir Drkulec
05-27-2018, 02:35 PM
I think Garland was upset by my relating an incident I observed in my doctors office almost forty years ago. The exchange in question is as follows:

The thread was titled The decline of Canadian Chess.

https://forum.chesstalk.com/showthread.php/16465-The-decline-of-Canadian-chess/page18?highlight=Frarey+autism

Neil Frarey: Chess Federation of Canada must become data driven.

Kevin Pacey: What likely benefits might you see if that happens, Neil?

Vlad Drkulec: Neil strikes me as someone who reads the buzzwords of the day and has to regurgitate them like the autistic young man repeated the baseball sports broadcast in my doctor's waiting room some thirty years ago in an almost perfect recreation of the original. Neil's version is not quite so impressive or memorable. POST 174 November 22, 2017.

Neil Frarey: Did you just manipulate a young man inflicted with autism???

You didn't just do that ...did you Drkulec?

To the other Executive members of the Chess Federation of Canada who have a good conscious ...remove Vlad Drkulec from your Executive.


Vlad Drkulec: The term is "good conscience" not "good conscious". Trying to use words you don't understand leads to malapropisms which make you appear comical and not intelligent. I did not "manipulate a youth man with autism" but related an incident from my past where a young man repeated a sports broadcast perfectly like other people might make a photocopy of a page of text. It was a moment of wonder which contrary to your usual practice showed that there is far more magic in the world than is dreamed of in your philosophy (Horatio).

A nod to Shakespeare's play Hamlet.

Neil Frarey: And yet even though you clearly understood my meaning (and thanks for the correction) ... you continue to manipulate those who are inflicted with autism by comparing those folks to ...me, and me ...to those folks!

Vlad Drkulec: Neil, Neil, Neil, Neil. For all your posturing you completely missed the boat. You show that you and the other trolls of chesstalk are brothers in levels of intellectual attainment, reasoning and debate tactics. There is nothing disrespectful to that wondrous individual who is probably now in his fifties. He is a shining example of what the human mind is capable of. Yours not so much. You are the pointy haired boss of chess talk, spouting phrases like magical incantations without understanding them.

A nod to Scott Adams cartoon Dilbert.

Neil Frarey: Instead ...you chose not to debate Kevin's question to me about the benefits of mining data.

Vladimir Drkulec:

"THE POWER OF THEMASWOT
NF
New Life Foundation


Vernon Howard's
SECRETS OF LIFE (R)


************************************************** ********************


"THE POWER OF THEMASWOT


How many times have you found yourself involved with a person or
event only to later regret it? This exercise keeps you out of
trouble in the first place.


The whole idea is for you to be on guard against invitations and
suggestions that look like fun at first but which turn out to be
painful traps. A person will get you involved in something, then
suddenly lose interest in it, leaving you with the responsibilities
and even the debts. Such a person is a hit-and-run artist.


Employ the power of Themaswot. This special word was created to
help you recognize a trap when meeting one.


Themaswot means, 'Themaswot makes the suggestions are the ones who
must do the work, make the decisions and pay the money.' Let this
be your attitude toward deceptive people. Stay away from their
lures. Do not let them unload their follies onto you. Let their
problems remain their problems. The person who causes grief is
the person who must suffer from it and correct it. This is a
Law of Life.


These sly invitations are far more numerous and dangerous than
you may now see. Become aware of them; then let Themaswot keep
you safe."


Practical Exercises for Inner Harmony, # 4




Neil Frarey: Rather ...you manipulated a young man inflicted with autism.

Vlad Drkulec: So that remarkable young man of those many decades ago has achieved the status of "He who shall not be mentioned or named" in your philosophy?

Neil Frarey: Please do the right thing Drkulec ...simply resign.

Vlad Drkulec: It probably is the right thing from my self interest point of view though I am no quitter. Just because I resign doesn't mean that the voting members would be silly enough to elect you. Necessity would raise up a hero to save the CFC from the looming abyss represented by you or one of your stand ins.




Neil Frarey: And if not ...then I hope those on the Executive with "good conscience" will force you out.

Vlad Drkulec: They can't, at least not easily. It would have to be unanimous (to remove a president who would continue to serve on the board as a regular board member) and would have to be ratified by the voting members. Of course the voting members could remove me very simply with a simple majority of the votes cast at the next AGM. If any one of the members of the current board wanted to be president, I would probably support them at the next AGM. There are even some voting members or non-voting members who I would support. Its unlikely that any of them are interested in the position.

It goes on and on and on and on but that is the gist of the exchange that Garland is objecting to.

David Gordon
05-27-2018, 03:15 PM
I think Neil exercised poor reading miscomprehension with regards to your initial story. For some bizzaro reason, being an unpaid volunteer president of the CFC tends to attract more then your fair share of trolls. Trolls need sunlight so they can be turned to stone.

I am a strong proponent of free speech and will vote against this motion

Vladimir Drkulec
05-27-2018, 03:23 PM
I think Neil exercised poor reading miscomprehension with regards to your initial story. For some bizzaro reason, being an unpaid volunteer president of the CFC tends to attract more then your fair share of trolls. Trolls need sunlight so they can be turned to stone.

I am a strong proponent of free speech and will vote against this motion

It is simply a discussion at this point. I don't recall signing any contract that said I had to simply sit there and take whatever the trolls want to dish out. My behaviour has been consistent as president in that I do not allow the trolls any quarter. I never have and I never will. I personally believe based on my understanding of the social sciences that this is the right policy.

Vladimir Drkulec
05-27-2018, 03:32 PM
Thank you for your remarks, all of you. We should not make it easy for people to make hit and run attacks on the CFC or its officers. We do not need to be data driven when I can pick up a phone and call people across Canada to find out what is going on in every corner of the CFC and Canada. Numbers do not drive any of our efforts because we are too small for it to be worthwhile. Anyway, unless something changes I am not going to put much more energy into this thread. There doesn't seem to be a consensus of outrage and on the contrary the consensus seems to be in the opposite direction so far.

Michael Lo
05-27-2018, 09:01 PM
... I am not going to put much more energy into this thread. There doesn't seem to be a consensus of outrage and on the contrary the consensus seems to be in the opposite direction so far.

Exactly, it is a waste of time and no point even in responding to it. Let's move on.

Pierre Dénommée
05-28-2018, 12:04 AM
Exactly, it is a waste of time and no point even in responding to it. Let's move on.

It is also an illegal procedure. The NFP Act define how to remove a Director from office and that requires a motion from the VM at special meeting, not a regular meeting. The required majority is set at 50%+1 and cannot be increased.

The procedure is called a removal, not an impeachment.

There is no ground for removal and such a removal would have a negative impact on the public image of the CFC and should be avoided except in cases of dire necessity.



Removal of directors

130 (1) The members of a corporation may by ordinary resolution at a special meeting remove any director or directors from office.
Marginal note:Exception

(2) A director elected by a class or group of members that has an exclusive right to elect the director may only be removed by an ordinary resolution of those members.
Marginal note:Vacancy

(3) A vacancy created by the removal of a director may be filled at the meeting of the members at which the director is removed or, if not so filled, may be filled under section 132.

Vladimir Drkulec
05-28-2018, 12:17 AM
Special meetings are usually called if there hasn't been an AGM in the statutory required time frame which to my understanding is within 18 months of the last one. Also relevant to this discussion is that we have an internal discipline procedure spelled out in our bylaws. In addition, convening any special meeting would require cooperation of members of the board of directors. Absent such cooperation the only provision that I saw in the act implied waiting for an AGM for such a procedure and required a very long notice period, none of which conditions have been met by this proposed motion. Since we have annual elections its rather pointless for such an exercise to take place when the same ends can be achieved by means of an election to replace the executive that you wish to remove.

The reason that this was not a motion that we voted on is that I was not going to second a motion to remove myself for being rude to a troll and when given the opportunity no one of the rest of the executive would take up the gauntlet.

Lyle Craver
05-28-2018, 07:48 PM
Personally I mostly avoid Chesstalk as I've been regularly offended by the trolls. If they are taking steps to stamp that out well good on them!

The other reason Chesstalk isn't of great interest to me is that it mostly deals with Ontario and Quebec matters and while BC people instinctively "know" things only matter if they take place in ON and QC (that's a joke folks!) they tend to mean it on ChessTalk.

The third reason is that I am an officer of the CFC and no matter how much you say you are speaking for yourself not the CFC many will always assume you are in fact speaking for the CFC which is a situation I am not completely comfortable with and I am particularly uncomfortable being in a situation where I and fellow officers are being baited to respond in kind. No thanks.

So yes if ChessTalk is serious about dealing with the trolls, it might become a more useful tool though to be perfectly honest I'd prefer this forum became the 'go to' place for chess news in Canada. (These days I mostly read my e-mail and TWIC)

Pierre Dénommée
05-28-2018, 11:29 PM
In addition, convening any special meeting would require cooperation of members of the board of directors.

Not really, 5% of the VM can do that on their own.


Requisition of meeting

The directors are responsible for calling annual and special meetings of members, but members who hold at least 5% of the voting rights can require the directors to call a meeting of members (subsection 167(1) of the NFP Act allows the by-laws to stipulate a lower percentage of voting members).

This is called a "requisition." The requisition (which can consist of several documents, each signed by one or more members) must state the business to be transacted at the meeting and must be sent to each director and to the registered office of the corporation.

If the directors fail to call a meeting within 21 days of receiving the requisition, any member who signed the requisition can call a meeting and the corporation must reimburse the member for the cost of doing so.

It should be noted that directors are not obliged to call a meeting if:

the directors have already established a record date for determining members entitled to receive notice of a meeting of members (that is, the directors have already started the process to call a members meeting)
the directors have already called a meeting, or
the business stated in the requisition is improper in that:
it is intended to enforce a personal claim or redress a personal grievance against the corporation, or its directors, officers, members or debt obligation holders
it does not relate in a significant way to the activities or affairs of the corporation
the member failed, not more than two years before the receipt of the proposal, to raise the matter covered by the proposal at a meeting of members
it is substantially the same as a proposal previously submitted to members less than five years ago and it did not receive the minimum required support (refer to the paragraph below) at that meeting, or
the rights to submit proposals are being abused to secure publicity.

Section 68 of the NFP Regulations provides that the prescribed minimum amount of support is:

3% of the total number of memberships voted, if the proposal was raised at one annual meeting of members
6% of the total number of memberships voted at its last submission to members, if the proposal was raised at two annual meetings of members
10% of the total number of memberships voted at its last submission to members, if the proposal was raised at three or more annual meetings of members.

Source Industry Canada http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/siTe/cd-dgc.nsf/eng/cs05006.html

Vladimir Drkulec
05-29-2018, 11:16 AM
The rules for a member resolution and required notice would also apply here. While a director can be removed through a special meeting it can also be done through a regular meeting if sufficient notice is provided. You can't call a special meeting if a regular meeting is already scheduled. To get on the agenda you would need the cooperation of at least one member of the board of directors or provide the item long enough in advance to be brought up at an AGM. The list of exclusions provided would almost certainly provide grounds to deny a special meeting for a motion like the discussion item before us. Any sensible person would simply persuade another candidate to run and garner enough support to vote the rascal out of office at the AGM.

You could take the whole thing to court but the court would ask whether you had tried to proceed through normal channels before going the special meeting route.

Pierre Dénommée
05-29-2018, 09:48 PM
The list of exclusions provided would almost certainly provide grounds to deny a special meeting for a motion like the discussion item before us. Any sensible person would simply persuade another candidate to run and garner enough support to vote the rascal out of office at the AGM.

I agree that those 2 exceptions could easily be applied

It is intended to enforce a personal claim or redress a personal grievance against the corporation, or its directors, officers, members or debt obligation holders.
It does not relate in a significant way to the activities or affairs of the corporation.

Garvin Nunes
05-31-2018, 10:43 AM
For the record, I support Vlad's trolling on Chess Talk. We chess players need a place to vent and a leader to show how how it's done.

Humor aside, 1 year terms are too short for an "impeachment" process. If you don't like the CFC president support another candidate.

Lyle Craver
06-02-2018, 09:25 AM
Even if I thought it was desirable given the length of time to the AGM it would make the point moot.

Short of extraordinary malfeasance (diversion of funds to pet programs without proper authority or something equally shocking) would be about the only situation I could even conceive of such a thing.

I have a difficult time imagining a CFC president having a "Roseanne Barr moment" that would get us onto the front pages of newspapers in a way that discredits the CFC!

For my money it would take an extraordinary hypothetical like that to convince me of the need to act swiftly and decisively in this way.

Vladimir Drkulec
06-02-2018, 07:43 PM
I have largely avoided twitter aside from a brief period in 2014. Don't go to war on too many fronts.

Lloyd Lombard
06-02-2018, 07:55 PM
As pointed out above, let's not forget that this is a volunteer position. I fully support Vlad as he'd done more for the CFC than many of us will do in a lifetime. The only thing I'd like to say is that I'd remind everyone in this discussion, and on Chesstalk, that we are a small chess community in Canada. We can all bring our ideas and concerns forward in a respectful manner and would suggest that we all be respectful to each other for the good of our small chess community.

Vladimir Drkulec
06-02-2018, 09:02 PM
Most of the trolls are not really part of our community. In some cases, they never played chess or have not been part of the community in decades. My default position is to treat everyone with respect. If someone is sincere, I have great patience even for people operating out of stupidity or mistaken beliefs. If someone is being insincere, or trying to bully the CFC or me, they have picked the wrong target.

I always keep in mind Nietzsche's admonishment, "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."