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View Full Version : 5.1 Junior chess issues and participation in world events like WYCC/WCCC/U16 Olympiad



Lyle Craver
12-10-2017, 10:57 AM
Discussion of Junior issues

Michael Barron
12-10-2017, 12:38 PM
Do we have CFC Youth Committee?

Michael Lo
12-10-2017, 11:34 PM
Was there one before?

Michael Lo

Vladimir Drkulec
12-11-2017, 12:01 PM
There has been a bit of a reset with a new youth coordinator but I have noticed that there is a great deal of consultation with a group of parents. Parents are more involved though I don't see a formal youth committee, yet.

Ken Craft
12-11-2017, 02:05 PM
I am not sure that there is a need for a youth committee.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-11-2017, 07:37 PM
I am not sure that there is a need for a youth committee.

Given that the work that needs to be done is getting done, I tend to agree but I am open minded on the idea.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-11-2017, 07:55 PM
The point of this agenda item is that a significant amount of executive time is absorbed by the youth portfolio. With the WYCC split into two tournaments our expenses have gone up significantly (and perhaps we need to revisit the criteria for deciding who gets to go to such youth events). Last year we got off pretty easy on fees for coaches but this year after six months our coach costs are almost $9000 higher than last year $13,910 for six months vs. $4,980 for all of last year). Our HOD (head of delegation) costs are up because we are sending two delegations rather than one and on and on. Adding five or six extra players more than doubles our costs because in theory the first coach gets his room and board paid for as a FIDE trainer or instructor while the second coach we have to pay for. Unfortunately having 15 players at each event requires two coaches whereas in the past we could have gotten away with three for the thirty players.

This is not a big deal where we have large CYCC's but can be a problem if we ever have an off year. We need to reign in costs to keep this sustainable over the long term. We probably need to ask extra players to pay more of their incremental costs or perhaps scale back on the support we give extra players who did not finish in the top three at CYCC.

Michael Lo
12-11-2017, 08:18 PM
The point of this agenda item is that a significant amount of executive time is absorbed by the youth portfolio. With the WYCC split into two tournaments our expenses have gone up significantly (and perhaps we need to revisit the criteria for deciding who gets to go to such youth events). Last year we got off pretty easy on fees for coaches but this year after six months our coach costs are almost $9000 higher than last year $13,910 for six months vs. $4,980 for all of last year). Our HOD (head of delegation) costs are up because we are sending two delegations rather than one and on and on. Adding five or six extra players more than doubles our costs because in theory the first coach gets his room and board paid for as a FIDE trainer or instructor while the second coach we have to pay for. Unfortunately having 15 players at each event requires two coaches whereas in the past we could have gotten away with three for the thirty players.

This is not a big deal where we have large CYCC's but can be a problem if we ever have an off year. We need to reign in costs to keep this sustainable over the long term. We probably need to ask extra players to pay more of their incremental costs or perhaps scale back on the support we give extra players who did not finish in the top three at CYCC.

In a simplified sense, with WYCC split into two, it should at most doubled our cost. Why did it jump to $13,910 from $4,980 - 2.8 times?

Michael Barron
12-11-2017, 08:42 PM
The point of this agenda item is that a significant amount of executive time is absorbed by the youth portfolio.

The point of the Youth Committee is exactly that - free executive time by taking care of the youth portfolio.


With the WYCC split into two tournaments our expenses have gone up significantly (and perhaps we need to revisit the criteria for deciding who gets to go to such youth events). Last year we got off pretty easy on fees for coaches but this year after six months our coach costs are almost $9000 higher than last year $13,910 for six months vs. $4,980 for all of last year). Our HOD (head of delegation) costs are up because we are sending two delegations rather than one and on and on. Adding five or six extra players more than doubles our costs because in theory the first coach gets his room and board paid for as a FIDE trainer or instructor while the second coach we have to pay for. Unfortunately having 15 players at each event requires two coaches whereas in the past we could have gotten away with three for the thirty players.

This is not a big deal where we have large CYCC's but can be a problem if we ever have an off year. We need to reign in costs to keep this sustainable over the long term. We probably need to ask extra players to pay more of their incremental costs or perhaps scale back on the support we give extra players who did not finish in the top three at CYCC.

All these topics should be discussed by the Youth Committee, which could submit their decisions in the form of Motions to be voted at this Meeting.
As it stands now - we're simply unprepared to make any informed decision on these important topics.

And to answer Michael's question:
Yes, we had active Youth Committee in 2009-2011, when it discussed and prepared practically all youth regulations that we use now:
starting with qualification rules for CYCC and including Canadian representatives selection for International events.
Details could be found in Governor's Meetings minutes.

Michael Lo
12-11-2017, 11:31 PM
Yes, we had active Youth Committee in 2009-2011, when it discussed and prepared practically all youth regulations that we use now:
starting with qualification rules for CYCC and including Canadian representatives selection for International events.
Details could be found in Governor's Meetings minutes.

Thank you Michael for explaining.

Why wasn't there a Youth Committee after 2011?

Ken Craft
12-12-2017, 07:52 AM
Probably because at times the Youth Committee tried to arrogate decisions that were rightly made by the Governors and/or executive.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-12-2017, 11:00 AM
In a simplified sense, with WYCC split into two, it should at most doubled our cost. Why did it jump to $13,910 from $4,980 - 2.8 times?

It may have to do with timing of events. Remember our fiscal year is May 1st to April 30th. I believe that we got off particularly cheaply by using onsite coaches last year. Transportation costs were minimal and hotel and food costs were covered because we used the same FIDE Senior Trainer Russia based coach for WYCC and WCCC (GM Alexander Cherniaev). We also had one Canadian coach for one of the tournaments. This year we had only one of four coaches being FIDE trainers (actually two received their trainer license but both at the same tournament and thus only one qualified for the subsidy) and we also had a hurricane shutting down an airport during the tournament which required rerouting of one of our coaches at an added transportation cost.

Pierre Dénommée
12-12-2017, 11:44 AM
It would be worthwhile for the CFC to have an official policy for sending arbiters to the 2 WYCC, Word Junior, Youth Olympiads and School Championship. Those assignments are required to advance the career of our arbiters and are almost impossible to get without official CFC backing. Even if the arbiters need to cover some expenses, that may still be worthwhile. I am not suggesting that we spend money on that, just that we support those who want to work at those events.

Nikolay Noritsyn
12-12-2017, 12:48 PM
I agree with Michael Barron about the importance of establishing a youth committee. "As it stands now - we're simply unprepared to make any informed decision on these important topics.
" - absolutely right.

Some thoughts on WYCC/ U16 Olympiad.

WYCC is an individual event, I think the current qualification criteria is fine. The more players play, the better - in fact, as I understand it, CFC gets some money for every extra player ($250, is it?). I think 1 coach/8 players is perfect, with 40 minutes lesson with each student before rounds. Perhaps, this $250 number should be increased to raise funds for a coach? With 12 official players and ~18 extra - even just a $100 increase is a lot of money when multiplied. Would be nice to see the numbers, by the way, I don't see why it has to be a secret. HOD costs, coaches, etc. Which brings us to the next point...

U16 Olympiad is a first time experience for me, so I have not thought about it much before. This is a team event, and players don't qualify for it, as I understand - players apply, and the highest rated are accepted in to the team. I was contacted about coaching the team, and I asked for a $2000 coach fee for the event. The CFC pays their usual $500 coach fee and air fair, while the parents had agreed to make up the rest at $300 each. If this is all agreed upon in advance, I think its a very normal situation. The way things happened though, with the constant changes - it was a cause for one of the players to withdraw. The $500 coach fee from CFC for 2 weeks of work is quite embarrassing though, for U16 Olympiad or WYCC.
Since players don't qualify to this Olympiad event, but are provided with some of their expenses being paid by CFC - I think it would make sense to put serious efforts to encourage the best players in Canada to be on the team. With the top players participating, a top 10 result and higher is very possible. It would also make sense to set a rating requirement for the team - lets say, 2250 for males and 2100 for females. If we can not get 5 players rated high enough to participate - the team isn't going. Having a coach signed up well in advance and all the details ready would probably help interested players. One more thing. Do we need 5 players? This year Belarus has 4 on their team, no substitutes - and they are doing just fine. Its not a very long event, just 9 rounds, with one rest day. No substitutes would mean everyone is there to play, everyone gets to play all 9 games (as an Olympic team member in previous years, I would personally love that).

Vladimir Drkulec
12-12-2017, 02:58 PM
I agree with Michael Barron about the importance of establishing a youth committee. "As it stands now - we're simply unprepared to make any informed decision on these important topics.
" - absolutely right.

Some thoughts on WYCC/ U16 Olympiad.

WYCC is an individual event, I think the current qualification criteria is fine. The more players play, the better - in fact, as I understand it, CFC gets some money for every extra player ($250, is it?).

$150 if they played at CYCC and $300 if they didn't. I did get some complaints about these fees from certain parents over the years. Everyone who plays at CYCC has in effect already paid $150 towards WYCC.



I think 1 coach/8 players is perfect, with 40 minutes lesson with each student before rounds. Perhaps, this $250 number should be increased to raise funds for a coach? With 12 official players and ~18 extra - even just a $100 increase is a lot of money when multiplied. Would be nice to see the numbers, by the way, I don't see why it has to be a secret. HOD costs, coaches, etc. Which brings us to the next point...

U16 Olympiad is a first time experience for me, so I have not thought about it much before. This is a team event, and players don't qualify for it, as I understand - players apply, and the highest rated are accepted in to the team. I was contacted about coaching the team, and I asked for a $2000 coach fee for the event. The CFC pays their usual $500 coach fee and air fair, while the parents had agreed to make up the rest at $300 each. If this is all agreed upon in advance, I think its a very normal situation. The way things happened though, with the constant changes - it was a cause for one of the players to withdraw. The $500 coach fee from CFC for 2 weeks of work is quite embarrassing though, for U16 Olympiad or WYCC.
Since players don't qualify to this Olympiad event, but are provided with some of their expenses being paid by CFC - I think it would make sense to put serious efforts to encourage the best players in Canada to be on the team. With the top players participating, a top 10 result and higher is very possible. It would also make sense to set a rating requirement for the team - lets say, 2250 for males and 2100 for females. If we can not get 5 players rated high enough to participate - the team isn't going. Having a coach signed up well in advance and all the details ready would probably help interested players. One more thing. Do we need 5 players? This year Belarus has 4 on their team, no substitutes - and they are doing just fine. Its not a very long event, just 9 rounds, with one rest day. No substitutes would mean everyone is there to play, everyone gets to play all 9 games (as an Olympic team member in previous years, I would personally love that).

The financials should be posted before the end of the meeting. If the treasurer doesn't do it with his report, I will do it.

Lyle Craver
12-12-2017, 10:12 PM
I agree with Michael Barron about the importance of establishing a youth committee. "As it stands now - we're simply unprepared to make any informed decision on these important topics.
" - absolutely right.

Some thoughts on WYCC/ U16 Olympiad.

WYCC is an individual event, I think the current qualification criteria is fine. The more players play, the better - in fact, as I understand it, CFC gets some money for every extra player ($250, is it?). I think 1 coach/8 players is perfect, with 40 minutes lesson with each student before rounds. Perhaps, this $250 number should be increased to raise funds for a coach? With 12 official players and ~18 extra - even just a $100 increase is a lot of money when multiplied. Would be nice to see the numbers, by the way, I don't see why it has to be a secret. HOD costs, coaches, etc. Which brings us to the next point...

U16 Olympiad is a first time experience for me, so I have not thought about it much before. This is a team event, and players don't qualify for it, as I understand - players apply, and the highest rated are accepted in to the team. I was contacted about coaching the team, and I asked for a $2000 coach fee for the event. The CFC pays their usual $500 coach fee and air fair, while the parents had agreed to make up the rest at $300 each. If this is all agreed upon in advance, I think its a very normal situation. The way things happened though, with the constant changes - it was a cause for one of the players to withdraw. The $500 coach fee from CFC for 2 weeks of work is quite embarrassing though, for U16 Olympiad or WYCC.
Since players don't qualify to this Olympiad event, but are provided with some of their expenses being paid by CFC - I think it would make sense to put serious efforts to encourage the best players in Canada to be on the team. With the top players participating, a top 10 result and higher is very possible. It would also make sense to set a rating requirement for the team - lets say, 2250 for males and 2100 for females. If we can not get 5 players rated high enough to participate - the team isn't going. Having a coach signed up well in advance and all the details ready would probably help interested players. One more thing. Do we need 5 players? This year Belarus has 4 on their team, no substitutes - and they are doing just fine. Its not a very long event, just 9 rounds, with one rest day. No substitutes would mean everyone is there to play, everyone gets to play all 9 games (as an Olympic team member in previous years, I would personally love that).

I for one would certainly welcome a well-functioning committee - there have been numerous times over the past decade where - no exaggeration - junior affairs have taken 70-80% of the national executive's time over extended periods. For sure such a committee would need to be respectful of the role of both the Executive and the VMs but I don't see that being a serious obstacle. The role of the Executive is policy setting not determining who our national reps are - those are SUPPOSED to be determined in battle over the board!

Michael Lo
12-12-2017, 11:56 PM
Is on-site coaching a must nowadays?

A few year’s ago when my kid attended WYCC, we arranged coaching through the Internet with my kid’s private coach. He coached my son for some time already, thus knew his playing style and openings well. There is also the advantage of a much more flexible scheduling. The coach also had enough time to look up the opponent’s games after each round’s pairing was out. Again, that was already a few year ago.

With the easiness of coaching through the internet, using skype, chess.com and other platforms, it may be a better and more economic choice to arrange for internet coaching. If the player do not has his/her own coach, CFC can arrange one (online) with a nominal fee. Possible?

I also support to have a full-functioning junior committee.

Nikolay Noritsyn
12-13-2017, 01:54 AM
Is on-site coaching a must nowadays?

A few year’s ago when my kid attended WYCC, we arranged coaching through the Internet with my kid’s private coach. He coached my son for some time already, thus knew his playing style and openings well. There is also the advantage of a much more flexible scheduling. The coach also had enough time to look up the opponent’s games after each round’s pairing was out. Again, that was already a few year ago.

With the easiness of coaching through the internet, using skype, chess.com and other platforms, it may be a better and more economic choice to arrange for internet coaching. If the player do not has his/her own coach, CFC can arrange one (online) with a nominal fee. Possible?

I also support to have a full-functioning junior committee.

I have done on-site coaching 3 times now, and participated over the internet for some of my students over the years as well.. On-site is without a doubt much better for the kids. Even without internet connetion problems, on-site gives many more possibilities for training. Its also a lot cheaper to have a coach there at all times, being available all day long. An average coach fee nowadays is $50/hour. CFC pays $500/two weeks + air fees are paid for. Absolutely no comparison

Michael Lo
12-13-2017, 01:23 PM
I have done on-site coaching 3 times now, and participated over the internet for some of my students over the years as well.. On-site is without a doubt much better for the kids. Even without internet connetion problems, on-site gives many more possibilities for training. Its also a lot cheaper to have a coach there at all times, being available all day long. An average coach fee nowadays is $50/hour. CFC pays $500/two weeks + air fees are paid for. Absolutely no comparison

That is assuming the coaches are happy with $500 for 2 weeks, which apparently is not the case. If each player has to pay $300 extra, a private coaching package for one tournament over the Internet is totally feasible.

May be an optional on-site coach for a nominal fee, say $100-$150?

I am predicting this year's junior financial will be in Red, we need to find ways to cut down the expenses and increase the revenue.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-13-2017, 01:30 PM
At many of these events the internet tends to be very spotty aside from times where everyone is asleep. We have done internet coaching also for the under 16 Olympiad in Mongolia a few years ago but that was coaching before and not so much during the event.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-13-2017, 01:33 PM
It would be worthwhile for the CFC to have an official policy for sending arbiters to the 2 WYCC, Word Junior, Youth Olympiads and School Championship. Those assignments are required to advance the career of our arbiters and are almost impossible to get without official CFC backing. Even if the arbiters need to cover some expenses, that may still be worthwhile. I am not suggesting that we spend money on that, just that we support those who want to work at those events.

I have no problem supporting those who want to work at those events. We don't send anyone to the School championships so it is unlikely we could get an arbiter assignment.

Undriadi Benggawan
12-13-2017, 03:22 PM
I am the new Youth Coordinator. Still learning the ropes.

I like the idea to have Youth Committee. At least until we can establish regulation, selection criteria, creating more revenue and distribution of the youth fund.
It will make the task for Youth Coordinator much easier when dealing with the parents.

The main challenge since I became Youth Coordinator is not enough money to go around.

Any suggestion on who should be in the committee?

Undriadi Benggawan
CFC Youth Coordinator

Michael Lo
12-13-2017, 04:02 PM
Any suggestion on who should be in the committee?

Undriadi Benggawan
CFC Youth Coordinator

Suggestion - Youth Coordinator from each province, or one member nominated by the provincial federation if the province do not currently have a Youth Coordinator. Lead by the CFC Youth Coordinator.

We should clearly define the responsibility/authority of the Committee so not to cross boundary with the executive team.

Nikolay Noritsyn
12-14-2017, 01:06 AM
That is assuming the coaches are happy with $500 for 2 weeks, which apparently is not the case. If each player has to pay $300 extra, a private coaching package for one tournament over the Internet is totally feasible.

May be an optional on-site coach for a nominal fee, say $100-$150?

I am predicting this year's junior financial will be in Red, we need to find ways to cut down the expenses and increase the revenue.

Just numbers. My work schedule in Uruguay:

8am-1:20pm, then lunch, then last minute preparation; round 3pm ~6 hours. work 6-10pm with dinner in between ~3 hours = 9 hours per day
9x50 (average coach fee nowadays. mine is 60) = 450 x ~9 days = 4050 (2 days are double round days, rest day I was working too)

As it is right now, CFC pays air fees ~1200 + 500 coach fee (should definitely be higher). Just from the numbers point of view - having a coach on-site is a definite positive.

Nikolay Noritsyn
12-14-2017, 01:09 AM
Suggestion - Youth Coordinator from each province, or one member nominated by the provincial federation if the province do not currently have a Youth Coordinator. Lead by the CFC Youth Coordinator.

We should clearly define the responsibility/authority of the Committee so not to cross boundary with the executive team.

I think heads of delegations (U16 Olympiad, WYCC, WCCC) would be very knowledgeable people and should be on the committee.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-14-2017, 11:46 AM
I think heads of delegations (U16 Olympiad, WYCC, WCCC) would be very knowledgeable people and should be on the committee.

I think it makes more sense to have any youth committee staffed with such individuals. Making the committee too large makes it unwieldy. My impression of the youth coordinators across the country is that they are somewhat busy individuals. This committee would require an investment of time.

Victor Plotkin
12-14-2017, 12:11 PM
Just numbers. My work schedule in Uruguay:

8am-1:20pm, then lunch, then last minute preparation; round 3pm ~6 hours. work 6-10pm with dinner in between ~3 hours = 9 hours per day
9x50 (average coach fee nowadays. mine is 60) = 450 x ~9 days = 4050 (2 days are double round days, rest day I was working too)

As it is right now, CFC pays air fees ~1200 + 500 coach fee (should definitely be higher). Just from the numbers point of view - having a coach on-site is a definite positive.

I was a captain/coach 3 years ago in Hungary-2014 U-16 Olympiad and want to share some ideas about this tournament.

1. I agree with Nikolay: coach on site is very important. Once I asked E.Bareev (who gives lessons both on internet and face-to-face) to compare the efficiency. Eugene believes that on-line teaching has about 30% efficiency compare to face-to-face lessons. That means 3 times less eficient!! Maybe 30% is a very low number, I would say around 50%, but anyway the difference is huge.

2. U-16 Olympiad is a very interesting and usually well-organized event, so CFC should make some effort to send and support the strongest possible team. Unfortunately, in Canada juniors don't have enough experience it team tournaments. I remember, in USSR most of junior tournaments were team events.

3. Sometimes team of 4 is better than team of 5. According to regulations, one player must be a girl, but team of 4 boys-only is possible. In Canada we don't have too many competitive girls and sometimes the gap between board 4 and 5 is very significant (more than 300 rating points). In this case, a girl is less involved and feels not comfortable. My opinion - if the gap is too big - send team of 4. What is too big? Something like 150 points. In 2014, even Q.Zhou played just 6 out of 10 games and wasn't too happy.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-14-2017, 02:43 PM
Suggestion - Youth Coordinator from each province, or one member nominated by the provincial federation if the province do not currently have a Youth Coordinator. Lead by the CFC Youth Coordinator.

We should clearly define the responsibility/authority of the Committee so not to cross boundary with the executive team.

It has to be an advisory body or we would run afoul of NFP act rules.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-14-2017, 02:58 PM
I was a captain/coach 3 years ago in Hungary-2014 U-16 Olympiad and want to share some ideas about this tournament.

1. I agree with Nikolay: coach on site is very important. Once I asked E.Bareev (who gives lessons both on internet and face-to-face) to compare the efficiency. Eugene believes that on-line teaching has about 30% efficiency compare to face-to-face lessons. That means 3 times less eficient!! Maybe 30% is a very low number, I would say around 50%, but anyway the difference is huge.

Those efficiencies are probably specific to Eugene. I actually find that online lessons can be more efficient than face to face because you don't have to reset the pieces and it is easier to backtrack to an earlier position without the inaccuracies of face to face where you usually use a chessboard. Also the elimination of travel time is a plus.



2. U-16 Olympiad is a very interesting and usually well-organized event, so CFC should make some effort to send and support the strongest possible team. Unfortunately, in Canada juniors don't have enough experience it team tournaments. I remember, in USSR most of junior tournaments were team events.

I agree. We went a little overboard with the Hungary U16 Olympiad but the results were satisfying from the point of view of team experience and participation. The only downside is that it created some expectations in certain individuals that we cannot repeat year after year.




3. Sometimes team of 4 is better than team of 5. According to regulations, one player must be a girl, but team of 4 boys-only is possible. In Canada we don't have too many competitive girls and sometimes the gap between board 4 and 5 is very significant (more than 300 rating points). In this case, a girl is less involved and feels not comfortable. My opinion - if the gap is too big - send team of 4. What is too big? Something like 150 points. In 2014, even Q.Zhou played just 6 out of 10 games and wasn't too happy.

According to the rules you must send a girl and she must play. In the instance where we did not send an onsite coach we had some issues with parents pushing the HOD not to play the girl even when the team they were facing was very bad. It would be better if they went to a national team and a girls team for this event instead of the current situation where we send a girl who plays less than her counterparts.

Victor Plotkin
12-14-2017, 03:38 PM
Looks like you are right, Vlad. It was possible in 2014 to send 4 boys only. In 2017 even teams with 4 players (Belarus, Kyrgyzstan) have a girl. Probably, FIDE has changed the rules.

Fred McKim
12-14-2017, 10:39 PM
I am in favour of increasing the cost for extra players on the WYCC/WCCC "Team"

For players who did not compete in the CYCC, but are allowed to participate by the Executive -$500
For players who did not finish in the top 3 in their section at the CYCC, but are allowed to participate by the CFC Executive - $250

Fred McKim
12-14-2017, 10:40 PM
I am in favour of increasing the contribution form the YCC's to the Junior Fund, by an amount TBA

Fred McKim
12-14-2017, 10:41 PM
I am in favour of doubling the Junior Rating fee to $1.00

Michael Lo
12-15-2017, 01:22 PM
At many of these events the internet tends to be very spotty aside from times where everyone is asleep. We have done internet coaching also for the under 16 Olympiad in Mongolia a few years ago but that was coaching before and not so much during the event.
With the maturity of Internet in recent years, connections in major cities around the world should not be a problem. Most world class tournaments are being held in major cities. Most major wireless providers in Canada now offers travelling packages - $5 per day in US and $10 per day around the world, they partner with local providers to cover calls, texting and data. Players can either use the wifi provided by their accommodation and have the travelling package from their wireless provider as backup. That was what we did a few years ago, using the travelling package and our phone's tethering function to turn it into a wifi hot spot so that our laptop can be connect to the Intermat through the phone. Everything worked out fine.


Those efficiencies are probably specific to Eugene. I actually find that online lessons can be more efficient than face to face because you don't have to reset the pieces and it is easier to backtrack to an earlier position without the inaccuracies of face to face where you usually use a chessboard. Also the elimination of travel time is a plus.
We had been through 4 face-to-face coaches and 3 online coaches. I was there for most of the lessons and do not see a major difference in the quality and efficiency between them.

It may not be currently practical to totally eliminating on-site coaches, but a combination of on-site and online coaches can be considered to lower the cost. To the least, I believe it would make sense to send just one on-site coach to each of of the WYCC instead of sending two.


I am in favour of increasing the cost for extra players on the WYCC/WCCC "Team"
For players who did not compete in the CYCC, but are allowed to participate by the Executive -$500
For players who did not finish in the top 3 in their section at the CYCC, but are allowed to participate by the CFC Executive - $250

I am in favour of increasing the contribution form the YCC's to the Junior Fund, by an amount TBA

I am in favour of doubling the Junior Rating fee to $1.00
I definitely support finding ways to increase the revenue AND cutting down expenses for the junior fund, in order to balance the book. We should do a more detail financial analysis before jumping into making changes. The priority would probably try to make each junior event (WYCC WJCC, Olympiad U-16, etc.) self-sustainable, and then look into other source of income to support any events that are practically not self-sustainable.

It is already the last two days of this meeting; we should form a Youth Committee to carry on with the rest of the discussion on youth related topics.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-15-2017, 02:00 PM
With the maturity of Internet in recent years, connections in major cities around the world should not be a problem. Most world class tournaments are being held in major cities. Most major wireless providers in Canada now offers travelling packages - $5 per day in US and $10 per day around the world, they partner with local providers to cover calls, texting and data. Players can either use the wifi provided by their accommodation and have the travelling package from their wireless provider as backup. That was what we did a few years ago, using the travelling package and our phone's tethering function to turn it into a wifi hot spot so that our laptop can be connect to the Intermat through the phone. Everything worked out fine.

The last few years generic internet at the hotels at world events has been poor. In reaction to this we did go for additional international internet packages to allow communication. It has made a difference.



We had been through 4 face-to-face coaches and 3 online coaches. I was there for most of the lessons and do not see a major difference in the quality and efficiency between them.

I have not noticed any difference in results for kids who take online lessons versus face to face. Internet lessons have a higher bandwidth of information because of the way you have to present them (chessbase versus a chessboard) allow for less time moving pieces around and more time teaching whatever you want to teach.




It may not be currently practical to totally eliminating on-site coaches, but a combination of on-site and online coaches can be considered to lower the cost. To the least, I believe it would make sense to send just one on-site coach to each of of the WYCC instead of sending two.

The first coach is relatively inexpensive if he is a FIDE trainer. We only have to pay travel and honorarium. It is the second coach that gets expensive as we also have to pay for hotel and food in addition to travel. It was just ten years ago that we did not send any coaches at all and the HOD was subsidized by the organizer of WYCC for food and hotel costs.



I definitely support finding ways to increase the revenue AND cutting down expenses for the junior fund, in order to balance the book. We should do a more detail financial analysis before jumping into making changes. The priority would probably try to make each junior event (WYCC WJCC, Olympiad U-16, etc.) self-sustainable, and then look into other source of income to support any events that are practically not self-sustainable.

It is already the last two days of this meeting; we should form a Youth Committee to carry on with the rest of the discussion on youth related topics.

At the moment, only the U16 Olympiad is not self sustainable. We use funds from CYCC to support the team.

Michael Lo
12-15-2017, 02:41 PM
The first coach is relatively inexpensive if he is a FIDE trainer. We only have to pay travel and honorarium. It is the second coach that gets expensive as we also have to pay for hotel and food in addition to travel. It was just ten years ago that we did not send any coaches at all and the HOD was subsidized by the organizer of WYCC for food and hotel costs.
What if we only provide on-site coach for the 1st Place winners in each age group in the CYCC. The rest have to arrange for their own online coach on their own expenses. CFC can assist to align online coaches if they do not have one available, but will not pay for it. Is this a viable option?


At the moment, only the U16 Olympiad is not self sustainable. We use funds from CYCC to support the team.
I was alerted by the substantial increase in expenses after WYCC is split into WYCC & WCCC. If after the split, those events are still self-sustainable, and if we can restrict to send one on-site coach to each event, we should have enough funding to send one coach to the U16 Olympiad. Is that correct?

Vladimir Drkulec
12-15-2017, 03:50 PM
What if we only provide on-site coach for the 1st Place winners in each age group in the CYCC. The rest have to arrange for their own online coach on their own expenses. CFC can assist to align online coaches if they do not have one available, but will not pay for it. Is this a viable option?

That is also a possible way forward.



I was alerted by the substantial increase in expenses after WYCC is split into WYCC & WCCC. If after the split, those events are still self-sustainable, and if we can restrict to send one on-site coach to each event, we should have enough funding to send one coach to the U16 Olympiad. Is that correct?

Not always. It really depends on where the tournament is held and whether we use Canadian or international coaches and whether the coaches are FIDE trainers or FIDE instructors. Travel costs are a huge variable. For several tournaments we used local coaches (who already had a large presence in Canada) which greatly reduced the travel costs. I think in one or two cases we just had to pay for a train ticket and a small honorarium. We spent almost as much on coaches as we did on players this past year which is a bit of an imbalance.

Undriadi Benggawan
12-15-2017, 04:43 PM
How do we go about choosing who should be in the Youth Committee?
Do we need to vote?

- Need to state the objectives and time line.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-15-2017, 05:01 PM
How do we go about choosing who should be in the Youth Committee?
Do we need to vote?

- Need to state the objectives and time line.

Since you are the one who will be the primary point of contact for this I would say that it is up to you. Christina Tao and Victoria Doknjas would be two of my suggestions who have recently been HOD's at major world events if they are able to serve. I would also suggest someone like Mikhail Egorov who has been to WYCC/WCCC as a coach and also is an active organizer and youth coach. I would look for people who are doers and not people wanting to pad their resume. Also consider some of the parents of kids who attend lots of WYCCs and CYCCs as they will have good insight into how we can make it a better experience for both kids and parents. The role of the committee has to be advisory and they can't make decisions involving money without the input of the executive and in some cases the voting members.

Undriadi Benggawan
12-16-2017, 07:28 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Vlad.
I will contact them and keep the CFC Exec inform.

Any interest from the CFC governors?

Vladimir Drkulec
12-16-2017, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Vlad.
I will contact them and keep the CFC Exec inform.

Any interest from the CFC governors?

In the past, Valer Demian who is involved in youth coaching also expressed interest.

Nikolay Noritsyn
12-16-2017, 11:55 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Vlad.
I will contact them and keep the CFC Exec inform.

Any interest from the CFC governors?

I would be interested.

Fred McKim
12-16-2017, 12:56 PM
With the maturity of Internet in recent years, connections in major cities around the world should not be a problem. Most world class tournaments are being held in major cities. Most major wireless providers in Canada now offers travelling packages - $5 per day in US and $10 per day around the world, they partner with local providers to cover calls, texting and data. Players can either use the wifi provided by their accommodation and have the travelling package from their wireless provider as backup. That was what we did a few years ago, using the travelling package and our phone's tethering function to turn it into a wifi hot spot so that our laptop can be connect to the Intermat through the phone. Everything worked out fine.


We had been through 4 face-to-face coaches and 3 online coaches. I was there for most of the lessons and do not see a major difference in the quality and efficiency between them.

It may not be currently practical to totally eliminating on-site coaches, but a combination of on-site and online coaches can be considered to lower the cost. To the least, I believe it would make sense to send just one on-site coach to each of of the WYCC instead of sending two.




I definitely support finding ways to increase the revenue AND cutting down expenses for the junior fund, in order to balance the book. We should do a more detail financial analysis before jumping into making changes. The priority would probably try to make each junior event (WYCC WJCC, Olympiad U-16, etc.) self-sustainable, and then look into other source of income to support any events that are practically not self-sustainable.

It is already the last two days of this meeting; we should form a Youth Committee to carry on with the rest of the discussion on youth related topics.

I'm not sure that the U-16 Olympiad can fund itself, it has to be funded with some excess from the CYCC money

Pierre Dénommée
12-16-2017, 01:04 PM
Any interest from the CFC governors?

I could be on the Committee. An arbiter is required to update at least the tiebreak rules. FIDE keep changing those rules and I got one complaint that tiebreaks should not be recommended, they should be mandatory and announced in advance of the first round.

The current version is here http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=187&view=article but FIDE is currently investigating ways to get rid of the Virtual Opponent which is considered too arbitrary by some. Options such as average Buchholz and average Sonneborn-Berger are being studied. For example, a player with a SB of 15 in 5 games would get an average of 3 tiebreak points per games while another player who got a pairing allocated bye and got an SB of 13.5 in 4 games would get an average of 3,375 SB per game. The proponents of this system were not ready and the matter has be forwarded to the next FIDE Congress.

Vladimir Drkulec
12-16-2017, 01:46 PM
I would be interested.

Great news!

Michael Lo
12-16-2017, 01:58 PM
Will it be a good idea to setup a discussion forum here for the Youth Committee?

Undriadi Benggawan
12-16-2017, 07:57 PM
I will list folks that are interested to be in youth committee and names that were suggested and contact them.

Not every names suggested has access to this forum.

Discussion among the youth committee can be done by emails and I keep the CFC governors inform.

Hal Bond
12-17-2017, 09:02 AM
It would be worthwhile for the CFC to have an official policy for sending arbiters to the 2 WYCC, Word Junior, Youth Olympiads and School Championship. Those assignments are required to advance the career of our arbiters and are almost impossible to get without official CFC backing. Even if the arbiters need to cover some expenses, that may still be worthwhile. I am not suggesting that we spend money on that, just that we support those who want to work at those events.

Such a policy will make little difference. We cannot dictate who the Arbiters are at someone else's tournament.

Fred McKim
12-17-2017, 11:49 AM
I will list folks that are interested to be in youth committee and names that were suggested and contact them.

Not every names suggested has access to this forum.

Discussion among the youth committee can be done by emails and I keep the CFC governors inform.

It sounds like you may have a dozen people interested in being part of the Committee. This is too many in the long term, but I'd start with all of them and whittle it down to those who are contributing regularly with well thought out ideas.

Pierre Dénommée
12-17-2017, 03:57 PM
Such a policy will make little difference. We cannot dictate who the Arbiters are at someone else's tournament.

We cannot do that, but we can tell FIDE that the CFC approve or recommend someone. Without an explicit permission form a national Federation, nobody will ever be considered for those arbiters positions. This is what is being said in FIDE refresher seminars: nobody will be selected against the wish of his national Federation, so it is important that whoever selects know that Canadian applicants are authorized by the CFC.