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View Full Version : 6. "THE VOTING BOOTH" - results of voting



Lyle Craver
12-03-2016, 07:35 PM
MOTION 5B1:

VOTE YES (25) Aris Marghetis Christopher Field David Gordon Félix Dumont Fred McKim Garland Best Gary Hua Hal Bond Halldor P. Palsson Ilia Bluvshtein Ken Einarsson Lloyd Lombard Lyle Craver Marcus Wilker Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Barron Michael Lo Nikolay Noritsyn Pierre Dénommée Richard Bowes Robert Sasata Valer Eugen Demian Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin Vladimir Drkulec
VOTE NO (1) Richard Bérubé
ABSTAIN (4) Ken Craft Les Bunning Patrick McDonald Vladimir Semyonov

Motion Carried

MOTION 5B2:

VOTE YES (25) Christopher Field David Gordon Félix Dumont Fred McKim Gary Hua Hal Bond Halldor P. Palsson Ilia Bluvshtein Ken Einarsson Lloyd Lombard Lyle Craver Marcus Wilker Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Barron Michael Lo Nikolay Noritsyn Paul Leblanc Pierre Dénommée Richard Bowes Robert Sasata Valer Eugen Demian Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin Vladimir Drkulec Vladimir Semyonov
VOTE NO (1) Richard Bérubé
ABSTAIN (3) Aris Marghetis Ken Craft Les Bunning

Motion Carried

MOTION 5B3:

VOTE YES (24) Aris Marghetis Christopher Field David Gordon Félix Dumont Fred McKim Garland Best Gary Hua Halldor P. Palsson Ilia Bluvshtein Ken Einarsson Lloyd Lombard Lyle Craver Marcus Wilker Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Lo Paul Leblanc Pierre Dénommée Richard Bowes Robert Sasata Valer Eugen Demian Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin Vladimir Drkulec Vladimir Semyonov
VOTE NO (5) Ken Craft Les Bunning Michael Barron Patrick McDonald Richard Bérubé
ABSTAIN (1) Nikolay Noritsyn

Motion Carried

MOTION 5B4:

VOTE YES (20) Aris Marghetis Christopher Field Félix Dumont Fred McKim Garland Best Gary Hua Hal Bond Ilia Bluvshtein Ken Einarsson Marcus Wilker Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Barron Nikolay Noritsyn Patrick McDonald Paul Leblanc Pierre Dénommée Robert Sasata Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin Vladimir Drkulec
VOTE NO (8) David Gordon Halldor P. Palsson Ken Craft Lloyd Lombard Michael Lo Richard Bérubé Richard Bowes Valer Eugen Demian
ABSTAIN (3) Les Bunning Lyle Craver Vladimir Semyonov

MOTION CARRIED

MOTION 5B5

VOTE YES (12) Aris Marghetis Christopher Field Félix Dumont Fred McKim Gary Hua Ilia Bluvshtein Michael Barron Nikolay Noritsyn Paul Leblanc Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin Vladimir Drkulec
VOTE NO (16) David Gordon Elias Oussedik (ineligible) Halldor P. Palsson Ken Craft Ken Einarsson Les Bunning Lloyd Lombard Lyle Craver Marcus Wilker Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Lo Pierre Dénommée Richard Bérubé Richard Bowes Robert Sasata Valer Eugen Demian Vladimir Semyonov
ABSTAIN (1) Hal Bond

MOTION DEFEATED

MOTION 5B6

VOTE YES (8) Christopher Field Fred McKim Ilia Bluvshtein Marcus Wilker Nikolay Noritsyn Paul Leblanc Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin
VOTE NO (13) Aris Marghetis Félix Dumont Garland Best Halldor P. Palsson Ken Craft Lloyd Lombard Lyle Craver Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Barron Michael Lo Patrick McDonald Pierre Dénommée Vladimir Drkulec
ABSTAIN (2) Les Bunning Valer Eugen Demian

MOTION DEFEATED

MOTION 5B7

VOTE YES (25) Christopher Field David Gordon Félix Dumont Fred McKim Gary Hua Halldor P. Palsson Ilia Bluvshtein Ken Craft Ken Einarsson Les Bunning Lloyd Lombard Marcus Wilker Mark S. Dutton, I.A. Michael Barron Michael Lo Nikolay Noritsyn Paul Leblanc Pierre Dénommée Richard Bérubé Robert Sasata Valer Eugen Demian Victor Itkin Victor Plotkin Vladimir Drkulec Vladimir Semyonov
VOTE NO (2) Lyle Craver Richard Bowes
ABSTAIN (1) Aris Marghetis

MOTION CARRIED

Special Note on 5B5 - As noted a vote was cast by a member of the 2015-16 Assembly who I apparently did not remove voting privilege at the end of the outgoing meeting. I am now fully reviewing which forum users have voting privileges to ensure everyone who should does and everyone who shouldn't doesn't. I do this at the beginning and end of every AGM and apparently missed one. My apologies for the error which did not impact the results of voting

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 03:19 PM
This is a re-post from the thread "5B1 - NEW MOTIONS - Olympic Team Selection". I believe here is the appropriate thread for it. I apologize to the voting members to have dragged this on.

My objective for reconsidering motion 5B3 is to make it bullet proof. I got a feeling that it will come back and haunt us in the future.

For motion 5B4, I do support rewarding/encouraging players participating in the Canadian Closed or Canadian Women, but strongly against penalizing players not participating in the Canadian Closed or Canadian Women. There are simply too many factors that may not be controllable by the players that prevent them from participating in certain tournament(s) even they wanted to participate.

Mr. President and Secretary, I would like to move to reconsider the motions 5B3 and 5B4.

Revised motion 5B3:

The formula uses the FIDE rating only as a base for the team if the average FIDE rating of top-5 eligible players is above 2300. The formula uses the average FIDE and CFC rating as a base for the team if the average FIDE rating of top-5 eligible players is below or equal 2300. Any number is rounded to the nearest 1. 0.5 is rounded to 1. If 2 or more players have the same total number then the younger age will be used as the tie-breaker.

Reason to reconsider: Eliminate possible gender discrimination complains.

Revised motion 5B4:

Bonuses for performance in the last Canadian Closed or last Canadian Women, respectively, that took place 5-36 months prior to the Olympiad and that has not been used as qualification for a previous Olympiad:

+10 points if player played all rounds of Canadian Closed
+20 points for third place
+30 points for second place

This bonus will be added to any base rating number (last rating, average rating or highest rating).

Reason to reconsider: remove connotation of penalizing players not participated in the Canadian Closed or Canadian Women.

Victor Plotkin
12-04-2016, 06:27 PM
I do not understand. What value has the voting, if every governor is able to cancel the passed motion immediately?

About motion 4. Michael, you expressed your opinion. You did not like this motion and voted against it. Absolutely no problem. However the motion passed. With your vote or without it - doesn't matter. Now you want to cancel it. How about democracy?

About motion 3. Honestly, I got tired from the word "discrimination". I guess, discrimination is creating a worse condition for certain group of people. Which "worse condition" do you see here? What discrimination are you talking about?

After some additional consideration, I don't want to include any specific number in this motion. I want Women Team to use average CFC-FIDE rating anyway, even with the average rating above 2300. I can explain it. Usually, the Women Team includes at least 1 player U-18 with K-factor of 40. K-factor of 40 makes the FIDE rating too volatile and thus less reliable. Using FIDE rating only in this case is just wrong. Opposite, the National Team never had a player with K-factor of 40. Actually, U-18 players play for the National Team very rarely. Last time it was in 2008 (Noritsyn). Even in this case, their K-factor is not 40.

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 06:53 PM
Victor, I think there is some miss understanding here. Your motions 5B1 to 5B4 have already passed. I moved to update the wordings of two of the passed motions. No matter those re-wordings pass or not, the final results of your passed motions are intact, they are not "cancelled".

On the "Women Team to use average CFC-FIDE rating" wordings. I never knew you changed your mind. You agreed to change it to "average rating above 2300" in a previous discussion. I did not say your original motion is "discrimination". The objective of the re-wording is to "Eliminate possible gender discrimination complains", just trying to avoid complains.

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 07:09 PM
Victor, can we at least leave this on the table and see what other voting members prefer? I am not insisting on re-wording the two motions, but think that if they are to be re-worded, we better do it now than later. I have repeatedly asked for your opinion and did not see a strong objection from you until now. If you are absolutely against it, like Vlad said, you are the Master Representative and have better knowledge than I do on these issues, I am okay to take back the motion. Again, I have absolutely no intent to "cancel" any of your passed motions.

Victor Plotkin
12-04-2016, 07:15 PM
Michael,

I recommend you to understand the rules of the game before you start playing. Your "re-wording" of the motion 3 is a very principal correction. Re-wording is what Christopfer Field proposed about some of the motions.

Tomorrow you can decide to include Selection Committee again is your motion 1 "re-wording".

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 07:45 PM
I see your point of not "re-wording" motion 3 now, and have no problem to keep it as-is, i.e. no change to motion 3. Do you want me to remove the motion to re-word motion 4 also?

I've already dropped the issue of the "Selection Committee" once Vlad ruled on it. I also have repeatedly stated that I have no problem with eliminating the Selection Committee, just need a clarification from the President that it is actually eliminated.

Victor Plotkin
12-04-2016, 07:54 PM
The answer to your question about motion 4 is "absolutely yes". I have indicated already that I definitely prefer my initial wording with the word "penalty". I used the alternative wording just as an example to explain how this motion works.

About the word "penalty". The minor penalty of 10 points is not a big deal for our top-2 or 3 players. They will qualify anyway. For other players 10 points penalty would be additional reason to play in Canadian Closed. I do not see any problem here.

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 08:19 PM
Victor, you've already pointed out in a previous discussion that the final result of the bonus/penalty calculation would be the same for either the original or "re-worded" motion. If you insist to keep the word "penalty" in the motion, I will give way. An example would be on giving tax credit (bonus) to donations to charities or impose extra tax (penalty) on those that do not donate to charity, I would support the former but not the latter.

Mr President & Secretary, after the above discussion with Victor, I am removing my motion to re-word (revise) Victor's passed motions 3 & 4. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

Victor Plotkin
12-04-2016, 08:28 PM
Thank you, Michael.

I don't want any additional polls and discussions. As Evgeny Bareev was saying at the end of every team meeting in Baku: "Let's enjoy life".

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 08:45 PM
You are very welcome, Victor.

I've been following your discussion on this topic here and in Chesstalk (for a long time). I supported the major principles of the motions. Although we may have minor discrepancies, it does not lessen my appreciation of the effort and time you have put into it to make the selection process, imho, much better. Yes, Let’s enjoy life :)

Vladimir Drkulec
12-04-2016, 09:02 PM
In any case we cannot change a motion once voting has started other than to correct obvious grammar mistakes. To submit an entirely new motion requires a minimum of three weeks notice and as much as six months notice if opposed by the directors.

Michael Lo
12-04-2016, 09:16 PM
Vlad, noted, that is fair.