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Fred McKim
08-21-2016, 10:54 AM
10.1 Youth Advisory Committee

This has been discussed both on CT and by the Executive. I'm looking forward to a lively discussion.

My opinion is that he YAC would be advisory and work on Youth policy and be available to assist the Youth Co-ordinator, Executive Director, and President in mobilizing and contacting and providing a nation-wide network for our young players as needed.

My two cents worth.

Vladimir Drkulec
08-21-2016, 11:41 AM
I spoke to various parents at CYCC and NAYCC who indicated that they would be willing to serve on such a committee if it was clearly mandated with an advisory role with clearly defined objectives and terms of reference.

Michael Barron
08-21-2016, 09:46 PM
I spoke to various parents at CYCC and NAYCC who indicated that they would be willing to serve on such a committee if it was clearly mandated with an advisory role with clearly defined objectives and terms of reference.

Thank you, Vlad!
That's exactly what we need! :)
Could you please elaborate:
what you understand as "clearly defined objectives and terms of reference"?
Could you please word a Motion what you would be willing to support?

Vladimir Drkulec
08-21-2016, 11:11 PM
Thank you, Vlad!
That's exactly what we need! :)
Could you please elaborate:
what you understand as "clearly defined objectives and terms of reference"?
Could you please word a Motion what you would be willing to support?

I don't think we need a motion to establish a youth committee. I would see such a committee being composed of persons interested in youth chess who are organizers and possibly parents and coaches. There has been concerns by members of the executive that youth chess absorbs a great deal of our time and effort and we can't really afford to increase the volume of either. We also have to remain NFP compliant so the committee cannot make financial decisions though they can provide advice on what they would like to see.

I think in the last few years we have shown that we are willing to spend what we raise from youth chess on youth chess. At times we have some challenges with certain individuals who have somewhat irrational expectations of what we can do for their child in particular. We are working with a limited budget and cannot offer funding to everyone who asks for it however much we wish we could.

Lyle Craver
08-22-2016, 01:15 PM
I am very supportive of such an advisory committee and do think input from parents and coaches is extremely helpful. I'd definitely like to hear from provincial junior coordinators (many of which are CFC voting members) as they have a wealth of experience that needs to be pooled. Legally the executive cannot delegate financial authority which I think is what Vlad meant when referring to NFP (for the benefit of newcomers that's the new Not For Profit organizations act brought in in 2014 as a condition of retaining our federal charter. This consumed a lot of our time as all federally chartered non-profits like the CFC had to adapt our bylaws to the requirements of the new Act which we did well before the deadline)

As he says we will never have unlimited resources but are committed to seeking the best results possible for as many as possible.

I like the idea for this committee - as always the details are the hard part.

Michael Barron
08-22-2016, 09:27 PM
Thank you, Vlad and Lyle, for your comments!
The question is:
How could we move forward? :confused:

Vladimir Drkulec
08-22-2016, 10:33 PM
Thank you, Vlad and Lyle, for your comments!
The question is:
How could we move forward? :confused:

It is our intention to move forward and establish an advisory youth committee. I believe that we can have a functioning committee before the next quarterly meeting.

Garland Best
08-22-2016, 10:56 PM
Good news indeed. Do we have a concept on the number of members on the committee and its structure? How does one join?

Lyle Craver
08-22-2016, 11:48 PM
In most advisory committees I've seen (and I have been appointed by our municipal council 4 times for terms ranging from 1 - 3 years with the option of a second term renewal) there is always a range of #'s of members

Other things I would expect to see in the terms of reference?

- how the committee chair is chosen (e.g. by the CFC president? the executive, the national junior coordinator or by the members themselves),

- In the municipal committees I've served on, residency is usually a condition of membership. In our case does one have to be a member? If not, is requiring a member to be the parent of a junior member ok? In my opinion we shouldn't require full membership BUT I would definitely insist the committee chair be a CFC member

- how long do they serve for? (i.e. at the pleasure of the national executive? A fixed term?

- what topics are they expected to advise the Executive or VM Assembly on?

- Is this to be considered a permanent committee or a temporary task force? (I've served on both types)

- It's probably obvious but I would put in a phrase saying 'since this is a national committee which is intended to do its business by e-mail, a regular e-mail connection is a condition of membership'

- who does the committee report to and how? (president? jr coordinator? VM Assembly?)

- I would require committee members to agree that their deliberations be confidential except when reporting to the president / jr coordinator / executive / VM Assembly or whomever we decide - we SPECIFICALLY don't want ideas floated to the committee to be published on ChessTalk or other venues. In case anybody's unclear on the concept this is a CFC COMMITTEE. (emphasis intended)

I don't want to get overly bureaucratic here but I think all of the above are terms needing a consensus of the VMs.

Patrick McDonald
08-23-2016, 07:31 AM
I would think that these are all conditions that can be agreed to. I would support these items in the ToR.

Fred McKim
08-23-2016, 08:14 AM
My thoughts:

1. Committee Chair. I would be in favour of the Committee Chair being selected by the Executive, to maximize the ability of the two groups to work together.

2. I think a staggered term like the Chess Foundation would work. Maybe a one year position and 6 rotating three year positions. So each year three new people could come on board.

3. Regulations for the CYCC for example. Policy on selecting official qualifiers for various events. Assisting Youth Co-ordinator or ExD in contacting parents and disseminating information when needed.

4. Semi-permanent.

5. Reports to the Executive through the Youth Co-ordinator.

Lyle Craver
08-23-2016, 11:56 AM
I am not wedded to any particular formula other than insisting that the chair does need to be a member not merely the parent of one. (For Fred's stated reasons - we need somebody who can effectively interact with the Exec and Assembly)

Garland Best
08-23-2016, 10:37 PM
My thoughts:

1. Committee Chair. I would be in favour of the Committee Chair being selected by the Executive, to maximize the ability of the two groups to work together.


I disagree with this point. i feel the Committee chair be elected by the members of the Committee, with the Executive casting the deciding vote for chair only in the event of a tie. The committee should show evidence of independence from the executive.

Michael Barron
08-23-2016, 11:41 PM
In most advisory committees I've seen (and I have been appointed by our municipal council 4 times for terms ranging from 1 - 3 years with the option of a second term renewal) there is always a range of #'s of members

Other things I would expect to see in the terms of reference?

- how the committee chair is chosen (e.g. by the CFC president? the executive, the national junior coordinator or by the members themselves),

- In the municipal committees I've served on, residency is usually a condition of membership. In our case does one have to be a member? If not, is requiring a member to be the parent of a junior member ok? In my opinion we shouldn't require full membership BUT I would definitely insist the committee chair be a CFC member

- how long do they serve for? (i.e. at the pleasure of the national executive? A fixed term?

- what topics are they expected to advise the Executive or VM Assembly on?

- Is this to be considered a permanent committee or a temporary task force? (I've served on both types)

- It's probably obvious but I would put in a phrase saying 'since this is a national committee which is intended to do its business by e-mail, a regular e-mail connection is a condition of membership'

- who does the committee report to and how? (president? jr coordinator? VM Assembly?)

- I would require committee members to agree that their deliberations be confidential except when reporting to the president / jr coordinator / executive / VM Assembly or whomever we decide - we SPECIFICALLY don't want ideas floated to the committee to be published on ChessTalk or other venues. In case anybody's unclear on the concept this is a CFC COMMITTEE. (emphasis intended)

I don't want to get overly bureaucratic here but I think all of the above are terms needing a consensus of the VMs.

My thoughts:

1. CFC Youth Coordinator should be the Committee Chair.

2. Provincial Youth Coordinators should be the Committee members, as well as other people involved in Canadian youth chess in some capacity. CFC membership is desirable, but not mandatory - for example, such people as Andrei Botez and Gergely Szabo could be the Committee members.

3. The term should be from Annual Meeting to next Annual Meeting - like other CFC Committees.

4. The Committee should discuss and prepare recommendations on all issues related to Canadian youth chess: Regulations for the CYCC, Policy on selecting official qualifiers, coaches and other delegation officials for various events, Organizing Youth events, and so on...

5. The Committee should use separate permanent private forum for it's work.

6. The Committee should report to VM Assembly through the Youth Co-ordinator.

Vladimir Drkulec
08-23-2016, 11:43 PM
The committee should work with the youth coordinator. It cannot be independent. The whole point of the committee is to advise on youth matters.

Vladimir Drkulec
08-23-2016, 11:54 PM
My thoughts:

1. CFC Youth Coordinator should be the Committee Chair.




2. Provincial Youth Coordinators should be the Committee members, as well as other people involved in Canadian youth chess in some capacity. CFC membership is desirable, but not mandatory - for example, such people as Andrei Botez and Gergely Szabo could be the Committee members.

We already communicate with provincial youth coordinators where they exist fairly regularly. There would be some serious conflicts of interest in that case. You cannot delegate authority to non-members.


4. The Committee should discuss and prepare recommendations on all issues related to Canadian youth chess: Regulations for the CYCC, Policy on selecting official qualifiers, coaches and other delegation officials for various events, Organizing Youth events, and so on...

You cannot delegate such authority to non-members. It would be a breach of fiduciary duty.



5. The Committee should use separate permanent private forum for it's work.

6. The Committee should report to VM Assembly through the Youth Co-ordinator.

The point of setting up a committee is to get things done and not to create a bureaucracy.

Fred McKim
08-24-2016, 06:50 AM
As this is a policy advisory committee, I don't think the youth Co-ordinator has to be Chairman, as they are already busy on the Operations side of things, they can be a non-voting committee member - UNLESS they want more involvement.

It may be that members will have to be CFC members. Vlad would be the best authority on that.

I think a committee of 5-7 is sufficient.

Garland Best
08-24-2016, 09:01 PM
I fail to understand why the purpose of the committee (to advise the executive and youth coordinator on youth matters) means that the Committee chair must be selected by the Executive.

In our federal government, committee chairs are elected by the members of the committee. See http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/House/Compendium/web-content/c_g_committees-e.htm#5

Garland Best
08-24-2016, 09:11 PM
We already communicate with provincial youth coordinators where they exist fairly regularly. There would be some serious conflicts of interest in that case. You cannot delegate authority to non-members.
...
You cannot delegate such authority to non-members. It would be a breach of fiduciary duty.
...
The point of setting up a committee is to get things done and not to create a bureaucracy.

Now I'm getting mixed signals. Are we discussing a committee that ADVISES the executive on policy and actions, or one that EXECUTES policies and actions on behalf of the executive? One that ADVISES has no "authority" to speak of. The executive make the final decisions.

Let's start over. What are we expecting a "Youth Committee" committee to do? I understood it to be an advisory committee, as Michael Barron described.

Fred McKim
08-24-2016, 09:37 PM
Now I'm getting mixed signals. Are we discussing a committee that ADVISES the executive on policy and actions, or one that EXECUTES policies and actions on behalf of the executive? One that ADVISES has no "authority" to speak of. The executive make the final decisions.

Let's start over. What are we expecting a "Youth Committee" committee to do? I understood it to be an advisory committee, as Michael Barron described.

It's advisory only. I think Vlad has some concerns with non-CFC members being on the Committee.

Garland Best
08-24-2016, 09:56 PM
I'm willing to accept a stipulation that committee members need also be registered CFC members, even if they do not play. A $45 membership fee is not an onerous amount to spend. However I should note that whether or not a committee member is also a member of the CFC has little relevance on fiduciary duty. For example allowing onto the committee a parent whose child stands to directly benefit from a policy change on say eligibility of a youth subsidy would be a breach regardless of whether that person has a CFC membership.

This is why the committee needs to be an advisory committee.

Vladimir Drkulec
08-25-2016, 09:14 AM
It's advisory only. I think Vlad has some concerns with non-CFC members being on the Committee.

That's not it exactly. I am fine with non-members being on the committee. I have concerns with the idea that members of the committee would make decisions with regard to personnel or finances which seem to be hinted at in some of Michael's posts here and on chesstalk.

Fred McKim
08-25-2016, 12:06 PM
That's not it exactly. I am fine with non-members being on the committee. I have concerns with the idea that members of the committee would make decisions with regard to personnel or finances which seem to be hinted at in some of Michael's posts here and on chesstalk.

The committee will hopefully have some good ideas. Perhaps they can come up with a guideline for the selection of coaches to International Youth events (that would still have to be approved by the Executive or the voting Members). However, it is clear to me that the actual Operations comes back to the Executive / Youth Co-ordinator.

Lyle Craver
08-25-2016, 05:37 PM
It needs to be specifically mentioned that one of the key points that got the CFC's charitable status lifted was allowing contributions resulting in tax receipts for contributions designated to junior champions AFTER the qualifying events when the advancing representative was known. In Canada Revenue Agency's world that's OK if the donor and recipient were "not at arms' length" but not OK when the two were related. Obviously a designated donation BEFORE the qualifying tournament would have been OK.

I say again that while that was not the ONLY specified reason it was clear that that's the point on which we were most crucified by CRA.

As such any financial aid proposal made by an advisory committee should reasonably expect very careful scrutiny as all of us would like to regain charitable status and while in my opinion it's a very low chance now it would quickly go to "snowflake's chance in hell" if there were anything of this nature going forward.

Fred McKim
08-25-2016, 06:31 PM
It needs to be specifically mentioned that one of the key points that got the CFC's charitable status lifted was allowing contributions resulting in tax receipts for contributions designated to junior champions AFTER the qualifying events when the advancing representative was known. In Canada Revenue Agency's world that's OK if the donor and recipient were "not at arms' length" but not OK when the two were related. Obviously a designated donation BEFORE the qualifying tournament would have been OK.

I say again that while that was not the ONLY specified reason it was clear that that's the point on which we were most crucified by CRA.

As such any financial aid proposal made by an advisory committee should reasonably expect very careful scrutiny as all of us would like to regain charitable status and while in my opinion it's a very low chance now it would quickly go to "snowflake's chance in hell" if there were anything of this nature going forward.

We had received a wrist slapping over that incident, which was prior to my becoming Treasurer. The only reason specified by CRA for our status removal was because we did not meet the requirements, and should never been a charity in the first place. Our future lies as a recognized sport.

Michael Barron
08-25-2016, 08:48 PM
Let me clarify my point:
The CFC Youth Committee should be advisory only.
It could discuss all issues related to youth chess in Canada and prepare recommendations for Youth Coordinator.
Decisions should be made by appropriate body - VM Assembly, CFC Executive or Youth Coordinator himself - taking into account Committee's recommendations.
Of course, decision maker could reject Committee's recommendation, if it seems inappropriate.

Michael Lo
08-26-2016, 04:00 PM
We first have to clarify on the objectives of forming a YAC. I got the impression that it is mainly for the purpose of hearing the voice/opinions from different point pf views, in particular, from chess parents, youth players and youth event organizers. Furthermore, to give advice on Youth policy to (mainly) assist the Youth Coordinator, and to provide a nation-wide network for the youth players.

If the main objective to hear the voice from the junior community, I would suggest a structure similar to the Parent Advisory Councils already established and works well in our school system. Following is possible structure of the Youth Advisory Council and Committee:

1) All chess parents, youth players over 16 years old and youth event organizers in Canada can join as a Youth Advisory Council member (whether they have to be a regular cfc member or we should create a special class of membership has to be determined).

2) A Committee to be elected by the Council members may consist of:
- Chairman (Voting)
- Two to Three Parents (Voting),
- Two to Three Youth Event Organizers (Voting),
- One Youth Player (Age between 16 to 20) (TBD),
- CFC Youth Coordinator (ex officio, non-voting).

With the conditions/considerations:
a) The CFC Youth Coordinator's duty in the committee is to provide information, answer questions, and explain CFC Youth Policies and attend to parental concerns.
b) All committee members must NOT be at arms' length. That is, both parents of one player, Parent and son/daughter should not be allowed to serve in the committee at the same time.
c) In most PACs, they allow one student member with no voting privilege. We have to decide on this.
d) Regional Representatives may be needed to help communicate to with the local youth chess communities when YAC grows to a significant size.
e) The Youth Committee only provides advisory and have no decision making power.
f) If we are going to create a special membership class for the Youth Advisory Council, the membership fee should be dedicated for supporting Youth Activities. My preference is to have a special membership class for the Youth Advisory Council.

I am just throwing my thoughts out. Am I making it too complicated?

Thanks,
Michael Lo

Fred McKim
08-26-2016, 04:31 PM
Michael. Very well thought out. Youth Council and Youth Advisory Committee. Any youth member of the committee might have to be 18.

Michael Lo
08-26-2016, 06:13 PM
Fred, I am not sure of the legal age requirement for a CFC committee member, the Secretary may be able to give a definite answer. In BC, the Cooperate Act which also governs BC Societies (non-profit organization) requires 18+ (each province has their own age limit) to be a board member or Director, but there is no age limit to be an officer.

I think that is the reason why PACs allow Student Representatives to be in the Committee but they have no voting privilege. PACs may make decisions that are legal binding (e.g. provide fund to school projects) and minors are not legally bind on any decision or contract which complicates the situation if they are allow to vote.

In our case, the Youth Committee only provides advise and the Youth Council does not have their separate finance to manage (unless we want to set that up to manage the membership fee and sponsorship), the Committee's Youth Player Member may reasonable be allow to vote. After all, youth players are the ones that affect by Youth Policy, they should definitely have a say.

Vladimir Drkulec
08-26-2016, 09:20 PM
I have a somewhat different view of the committee and its role. Typically it will be composed of coaches, parents and organizers with some of the people being all three at once. The role of the committee is to assist the youth coordinator and the executive and perhaps to provide a training ground for volunteers who might go on to roles with more responsibility within the CFC. Gary Hua who is a chess parent, organizer, coach is one person who I discussed this with at NAYCC. I guess he will have a somewhat different role with respect to the committee as the new youth coordinator. I look forward to working with him.

Michael Lo
08-27-2016, 12:02 AM
No matter what the final role of the committee will be, the committee certainly has to work closely with the Youth Coordinator. Gary's opinion on this topic will be invaluable and we are looking forward to it.

Gary Hua
08-27-2016, 07:07 AM
Regarding the CFC youth coordinator - I took up the challenge to provide a better service than the current outgoing CFC youth coordinator. I will try my best. I understand that the role is mostly in helping out CFC in selections and processing the applications of youth to International tournaments like WYCC/NAYCC etc.

I have always wanted to promote chess to the community and especially to the youth/kids as I believe Chess is a tool to help them grow to be a better person. That is the reason why I set up a community chess club in my living area and it ook up a lot of my personal time for the club already. I have seen so many kids getting interested and absorbing the benefits that chess provides.

As for youth advisory committee, I am not sure what is the final say as to the role but I definitely want the youth/organizers/parents to be involved and give suggestions as to how we can give ideas to CFC in promoting and helping out the youth. I dont think CFC youth coordinator should be the head of this committee. Let the new CFC youth coordinator ( whoever wins ) to provide a better service to CFC first before even thinking of doing other stuffs. Just my 2 cents

Valer Eugen Demian
08-28-2016, 01:07 AM
The requirement for any member if such committee (advisory or not) to be a member of CFC, is sensible. Do not understand why this is not the view of the majority. In my experience parents get involved to support their kids as impartial as they can. This creates a huge turnover since such parents want to join right away when they kids start playing and drop out the minute their kids lose interest in chess; huge turnover brings no continuity and changes of direction based on how the group feels at some point or the other.

This is not intended as a negative approach to such a committee. It is simply my observation after a few good years of dealing with parents and their kids!

Ken Craft
08-29-2016, 08:15 AM
I believe all committee members should have to be CFC members.