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Bob Gillanders
04-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Fred is on vacation this week. He will be visiting at times, but I am sure the family will do their best to keep him on vacation. :)

He has asked me to post the budget for him.
The results for this year are forecasts.
The 2013 budget is here for discussion and proposed amendments.
The plan is to vote on it at the AGM.

Bob G.

Paul Leblanc
04-01-2012, 01:38 PM
I have no issues with this budget. Well done.
Do you feel we are getting good value for the $3,000 audit cost?
I would like to see a consolidated balance sheet as well.

Bob Gillanders
04-01-2012, 02:52 PM
I have no issues with this budget. Well done.
Do you feel we are getting good value for the $3,000 audit cost?
I would like to see a consolidated balance sheet as well.

Actually, not much progress has been made on the audit front. A couple of audit firms have been contacted. We have asked them for a quote, but they have been slow in getting back to us. The 3k is an estimate based on the previous audits done by Watson (Ottawa) a few years ago.

Michael von Keitz
04-01-2012, 05:39 PM
Although the budget is up for discussion at the AGM, I believe we are hoping for approval of support to the Olympic teams at this meeting. We have a couple of holdouts that want guarantees, which I think is fair.

Paul Leblanc
04-01-2012, 06:13 PM
One of the olympiad team juniors (Ping) has an application in for support from the Pugi Fund. The trustees discussed it and feel that any junior who makes the team should receive some support, the exact amount to be determined, perhaps in the order of $200 to $300 per junior.

Michael Barron
04-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Thank you, Bob!

Will we see long awaited Youth Program fund financial report? ;)

Bob Gillanders
04-01-2012, 10:54 PM
Thank you, Bob!

Will we see long awaited Youth Program fund financial report? ;)

I was working on it today. A couple of questions for Gerry in the morning, and then I can finalize it tomorrow.

I was hoping to post it before your asked. :o

Bob Gillanders
04-02-2012, 02:18 PM
Here finally is the Youth Fund report for the 2011 CYCC/WYCC.
These are all the revenues and expenses pertaining to the 2011 cycle.

Bob G.

Bob Gillanders
04-02-2012, 02:22 PM
This second report is a continuity schedule which shows all changes from April 30, 2011 to January 31, 2012 in the accumulated surplus balance.

Bob G.

Hal Bond
04-02-2012, 07:53 PM
Hi Paul - in the previous Olympiad the Juniors received $500 each from the Pugi Fund. Is there are reason for this year's support being less?

Paul Leblanc
04-04-2012, 01:15 AM
Last year (from memory) the CFC held about $2500 in accumulated Pugi Fund income. I believe the trustees gave out about 4 x $500 to juniors on the Olympiad team. The CFC office can provide the exact figures.

At the moment, according to GL 2 there remains only $883 available to give out. I expect to augment that by $800 in June when I send my annual cheque to the CFC from the Pugi Fund portion of the Foundation.

That will give the trustees $1683 to last until June 2013. They may or may not want to deplete most of it for one event.

If you want to know who to lobby, the trustees are Craver, McDonald and Stringer although for the moment I have Lynn's proxy due to a prolonged serious illness.

Hal Bond
04-04-2012, 11:43 AM
Despite our most successful CYCC ever, we managed to lose $1400 on the WYCC. This makes me nervous about the 2012 prospects.

Hal Bond
04-04-2012, 11:44 AM
By the way Bob - great work on the youth financial reports.

Ken Craft
04-04-2012, 03:08 PM
I echo Hal's comments. Well done, Bob.

Michael Barron
04-04-2012, 10:43 PM
This second report is a continuity schedule which shows all changes from April 30, 2011 to January 31, 2012 in the accumulated surplus balance.

Bob G.

Thank you, Bob, for providing these reports!

If you don't mind, now we could discuss these numbers, right?

Apparently, we need more information on 2 negative items in the report:

Net proceeds from 2011 CYCC qualifiers prior to April 30, 2011 ( 1,025.76)
(included in receipts for 2011 CYCC /WYCC report)

Net Deficit for 2011 CYCC/WYCC cycle (see report) ( 1,431.50)

Sorry, I don't understand how first number ( 1,025.76) was calculated.
In the 2011 CYCC /WYCC report we can see:
YCC qualifiers & donations 1,900.76

How this became ( 1,025.76) ? :confused:

Is it possible to provide more detailed tournament-by-tournament report?

As for the second number ( 1,431.50) :
When I was Youth Coordinator and you was President, it was your directive that we can't spend on WYCC more than we earned from CYCC.
When and how this policy was changed? :confused:
And for what reason?
To send abroad a person who publicly denigrated CFC as organization and CFC officers personally? :confused:

I would think, we need more accountability and transparency in financial matters...

Egidijus Zeromskis
04-05-2012, 09:15 AM
The 2013 budget is here for discussion and proposed amendments.

I think it was planned to contribute to the Teams Championship (~500?).

Bob Gillanders
04-05-2012, 02:13 PM
If you don't mind, now we could discuss these numbers, right?

Apparently, we need more information on 2 negative items in the report:

Net proceeds from 2011 CYCC qualifiers prior to April 30, 2011 ( 1,025.76)
(included in receipts for 2011 CYCC /WYCC report)

Net Deficit for 2011 CYCC/WYCC cycle (see report) ( 1,431.50)

Sorry, I don't understand how first number ( 1,025.76) was calculated.
In the 2011 CYCC /WYCC report we can see:
YCC qualifiers & donations 1,900.76

How this became ( 1,025.76) ? :confused:


Thanks for the question, Michael.
Some of the difficulty in preparing the reports (and understanding them) is that the transactions span over two fiscal periods. The first report, Financial report on 2011 CYCC / WYCC captures ALL the financial transactions related to the 2011 cycle before and after April 30, 2011. In order to balance to the accumulated surplus balance at April 30, 2011, we need to make an adjustment. The CYCC qualifier tournaments brought in a total net proceeds of $1,900.76. (Net proceeds = Qualifier fees + donations - costs of Qualifier packages). ($1,025.76 before April 30, 2011, $875.00 after April 30, 2011)

I hope that answers your question.

Bob Gillanders
04-05-2012, 02:23 PM
Is it possible to provide more detailed tournament-by-tournament report?


Yes, with some additional work.
However, I don't think this is the proper forum for that.

You were Youth Coordinator last year, so I am pleased to share further detailed analysis with you, tournament by tournament, if you desire. If some of the numbers look wrong to you, perhaps there is an error you can help us fix.

Bob Gillanders
04-05-2012, 02:39 PM
As for the second number ( 1,431.50) :
When I was Youth Coordinator and you was President, it was your directive that we can't spend on WYCC more than we earned from CYCC.
When and how this policy was changed? :confused:
And for what reason?


Well, to be more precise my policy has always been, and continues to be, where possible, we save a little bit from good years, to help finance the not so good years. To your credit, you were able to stay within the budget of 20k provided by the Windsor CYCC. Well done sir.

Each year brings it's own unique set of circumstances and challenges. There are always many voices to spend more, more. I wished we had been able to save that 1,431.50 for 2012. But alas, it wasn't to be.

Bob Gillanders
04-05-2012, 02:55 PM
To send abroad a person who publicly denigrated CFC as organization and CFC officers personally? :confused:


Not acceptable. Disagreements over policy, criticism, and intelligent debate are all fair game. When any member of our chess community resorts to personal attacks on the integrity, character, and honesty of CFC officials, organizers, volunteers, to try and embarrass or belittle someone to try and win an argument, that is unacceptable. It hurts us all.

Michael, you and I have had our differences over policy, but I always found your heart was in the right place, and you always championed a position you felt was best for the chess community.

What to do about "bad behaviour"? I wish I had the answer.

Michael Barron
04-05-2012, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the question, Michael.
Some of the difficulty in preparing the reports (and understanding them) is that the transactions span over two fiscal periods. The first report, Financial report on 2011 CYCC / WYCC captures ALL the financial transactions related to the 2011 cycle before and after April 30, 2011. In order to balance to the accumulated surplus balance at April 30, 2011, we need to make an adjustment. The CYCC qualifier tournaments brought in a total net proceeds of $1,900.76. (Net proceeds = Qualifier fees + donations - costs of Qualifier packages). ($1,025.76 before April 30, 2011, $875.00 after April 30, 2011)

I hope that answers your question.

Thank you, Bob, for your response!

Unfortunately, it doesn't answer my question... :(

My understanding is that numbers in brackets are negative - like ($1,025.76), while without brackets are positive - like $1,900.76.

So, what is the Financial result of CYCC qualification system that we introduced last year - is it a profit or a loss?
And it's important to know - how we came to the final number?
That's why detailed tournament by tournament report is necessary.

I would think, this information should be reported to the Assembly of Governors to allow it to make informed decision on the feasibility of the whole program.

Thank you for your consideration!

Michael Barron
04-05-2012, 08:12 PM
Not acceptable. Disagreements over policy, criticism, and intelligent debate are all fair game. When any member of our chess community resorts to personal attacks on the integrity, character, and honesty of CFC officials, organizers, volunteers, to try and embarrass or belittle someone to try and win an argument, that is unacceptable. It hurts us all.

Michael, you and I have had our differences over policy, but I always found your heart was in the right place, and you always championed a position you felt was best for the chess community.

What to do about "bad behaviour"? I wish I had the answer.

Bob, I don't have all the answers neither, but I have a suggestion:
We need clearly let people know:
"bad behaviour" won't be tolerated!

As a very least we shouldn't spend even a penny for such people with "bad behaviour", let alone to send them abroad to represent our Federation... :mad:

Bob Gillanders
04-06-2012, 05:41 AM
As a very least we shouldn't spend even a penny for such people with "bad behaviour", let alone to send them abroad to represent our Federation... :mad:

Yes, I agree.

Bob Gillanders
04-06-2012, 05:58 AM
Unfortunately, it doesn't answer my question... :(

My understanding is that numbers in brackets are negative - like ($1,025.76), while without brackets are positive - like $1,900.76.

So, what is the Financial result of CYCC qualification system that we introduced last year - is it a profit or a loss?


Michael, to repeat,
The CYCC qualifier tournaments brought in a total net proceeds of $1,900.76. (Net proceeds = Qualifier fees + donations - costs of Qualifier packages). ($1,025.76 before April 30, 2011, $875.00 after April 30, 2011)

The bracketed number ($1,025.76) is not a "negative", it merely indicates that this amount is included in the accumulated surplus above. An alternative way to write the report would be:

Accumulated surplus as of April 30, 2011 from previous cycles $ 6,750.57
Net deficit for 2011 CYCC/WYCC cycle ($ 1,431.50)
etc
etc
etc

If this is still unclear, phone me.

Michael Barron
04-06-2012, 07:45 PM
Michael, to repeat,
The CYCC qualifier tournaments brought in a total net proceeds of $1,900.76. (Net proceeds = Qualifier fees + donations - costs of Qualifier packages). ($1,025.76 before April 30, 2011, $875.00 after April 30, 2011)

The bracketed number ($1,025.76) is not a "negative", it merely indicates that this amount is included in the accumulated surplus above. An alternative way to write the report would be:

Accumulated surplus as of April 30, 2011 from previous cycles $ 6,750.57
Net deficit for 2011 CYCC/WYCC cycle ($ 1,431.50)
etc
etc
etc

If this is still unclear, phone me.

Thank you, Bob, for explanation!

It is clear now. :)

Still, I would think, we need more transparency in financial issues.
Last term Executive were very open in decision-making process.
Youth Committee was very active and discussed such issues as how Youth fund should be spent.
This term, however, many important decisions seems to be made behind closed doors... :(

Even this financial report is presented almost a year after the fact, and as you admitted, after such period of time it was difficult to collect and understand the information.

CYCC qualification system is new, and the Governors need to monitor how it works.
For this purpose we need to see tournament by tournament report from last year.
By the way, could you please inform Governors how CYCC qualification system affects our finances this year?

Ellen Nadeau
04-07-2012, 09:00 AM
I too was disappointed that after a spectacular financial and organizational success of the 2011 CYCC that more dollars were spent than brought in.
I also note that after a very active (some would say too much) youth committee of last year we fell to silence of the Youth committee this year.