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Bob Armstrong
12-03-2008, 06:26 AM
CFC Bylaw 1

ORDINARY MEMBERSHIP

5. Any person, ordinarily resident in Canada, may become an Ordinary Member of the Federation, for the then-current fiscal year, upon payment of the Membership per Capita Fee, directly to the Federation, or through his Provincial Organization. Every Ordinary or Life Member has a right to vote on the appointment or election of the Governor or Governors who will represent his Provincial Organization. Every Ordinary or Life Member has a right to vote on the appointment or election of the Governor or Governors who will represent his Provincial Organization at the assembly of Governors but shall not be entitled to vote under any other circumstances unless specifically provided in these by-laws.

CFC Rules and Regulations, Article 1

SELECTION OF GOVERNORS BY PROVINCIAL ORGANIZATION

9. As soon as possible after the receipt by a Provincial Organization of the aforementioned Certificate, such body will convene a meeting of its Federation Members for the purpose of electing its necessary number of nominees for the Board for the ensuing term.

The above sets out for the CFC, as far as I can interpret it, a modified system of “ one member-one vote “. Members are to have a vote, in their province/territory, for the number of CFC Governors allotted to that province/territory, based on the principles set out in the CFC Handbook, of a Governor for every 50 members ( or part thereof ).

But is this the system used in all Provinces?

I believe in some provinces, the Executive of the Provincial Organization, appoints the necessary number of Governors ( maybe someone can help out by identifying those provinces that do it this way ). They do NOT give their CFC members a direct vote for the Governors.

In Ontario, I only know the situation in the GTCL region of the province. The province is divided up into 4 regions, and based on CFC membership numbers, the region gets to nominate their proportionate number of governors for the province. But the GTCL Constitution ( see it on the GTCL website ) is not set up to allow CFC members to vote for the Governors. It gives the votes to certain chess clubs' and chess organizations' representatives, and 3 members-at-large, and certain ex-officio representatives, at the Annual General Meeting. This is contrary to the rules of the CFC and contradicts the “ one member-one vote “ system demanded by the CFC Handbook ( Assuming I am right on this, I will be bringing the issue to the GTCL to amend their Constitution ).

Are there any provinces that give ordinary CFC members a direct vote for their governors?

Is anyone aware of whether any CFC members have tried to get changes in the Provincial Organizations where their system of CFC Governor appointment is unconstitutional?

Is anyone aware of whether the CFC Governors have passed any motions NOT IN THE HANDBOOK that affect this system of voting for Governors?.

Bob

Steve Karpik
12-03-2008, 11:08 PM
Looking at what Bob has quoted from the constitution, it would seem that each and every CFC member who lives in Ontario should be able to vote directly for the governors that represent our province at the CFC. This is not the case in reality. Is Ontario acting in contradiction to the constitution or has the constitution been amended and it is not reflected in what is posted online?

Christopher Mallon
12-03-2008, 11:41 PM
The OCA Governors elect people (usually themselves) as CFC Governors at the AGM. It's not entirely a formality as there are more OCA Governors than there are CFC Governors for Ontario.

Bob Armstrong
12-04-2008, 12:03 AM
Hi Chris:

But is this constitutional under the CFC Handbook regulations?

Bob

Egidijus Zeromskis
12-04-2008, 02:25 AM
In Ontario, I only know the situation in the GTCL region of the province. The province is divided up into 4 regions, and based on CFC membership numbers, the region gets to nominate their proportionate number of governors for the province. But the GTCL Constitution ( see it on the GTCL website ) is not set up to allow CFC members to vote for the Governors.I disagree with this statement. From the GTCL constitution:
" Article 7. The Annual Meeting
7.4. All CFC members in good standing residing within the GTCL boundaries may attend this meeting. Only members of the Board may vote on all motions."

As you may see the right to vote for the possible CFC and/or OCA Governors is not forbidden to GTCL CFC members. (i.e., all is allowed unless forbidden.) The list (nominees) goes to the annual OCA meeting for approval. The OCA has special rule for approval/elections/appointments:
Powers of the Board of Governors
4.10 Election or Appointment of Governors by the Corporation to the CFC – the Board shall, in accordance with the procedures specified by the CFC, elect or appoint eligible Members to serve in the Assembly of Governors of the CFC.

I would like to hear: What does it mean "the procedures specified by the CFC"?

The more critical issue is:
WHERE WERE MEMBERS DURING THE ANNUAL GTCL or OCA MEETINGS?

Bob Armstrong
12-04-2008, 02:46 AM
Hi Egis:

You were " nominated " as a GTCL CFC Governor at the GTCL Annual Meeting this Spring. Who was allowed to " vote " for the CFC governors at that meeting?

CFC members are not members of the " Board " of the GTCL. The board is composed of the representatives of chess clubs and chess bodies ( CMA, Chess Academy, etc. ), 3 Governors-at-Large, and some ex-officio members. Clearly only the Board members " may vote on all motions ". I have always understood that to include that they are the only ones who can vote as well for the CFC Governors. So it seems to me we have a legal interpretation problem here.

My solution: a simple amendment to the GTCL Constitution saying:

“ CFC Governors elected at the GTCL Annual General Meeting, shall be elected by vote of each CFC member in good standing present at the meeting. “

I have already asked the GTCL President to introduce such a motion. Egis, will you agree to second such a constitutional amendment?

Also, the CFC Handbook says the CFC members in a province shall elect the CFC Governors representing that province. So where is the CFC Handbook regulation that allows the OCA Governors to elect the Ontario CFC Governors?

Bob

Ken Craft
12-04-2008, 08:20 AM
NB Governors are elected by all members present at the NBCA Annual General Meeting.

Bob Armstrong
12-04-2008, 08:51 AM
Hi Ken:

Thanks for that information.

Are there any other provinces that elect their governors that way as well?

Bob

Egidijus Zeromskis
12-04-2008, 10:31 AM
You were " nominated " as a GTCL CFC Governor at the GTCL Annual Meeting this Spring. Who was allowed to " vote " for the CFC governors at that meeting?As I remember everybody was voting who was presented (see the names in the Minutes.) I would say the problem was to fill allocated seats, than to have a power for vote. :rolleyes:


“ CFC Governors elected at the GTCL Annual General Meeting, shall be elected by vote of each CFC member in good standing present at the meeting.“After rewording, it should go into the OCA constitution.


Also, the CFC Handbook says the CFC members in a province shall elect the CFC Governors representing that province. So where is the CFC Handbook regulation that allows the OCA Governors to elect the Ontario CFC Governors?It depends how you interpret this one: in accordance with the procedures specified by the CFC.

John Cordes
12-04-2008, 11:42 AM
Hi Ken:

Thanks for that information.

Are there any other provinces that elect their governors that way as well?

Bob

A non-authoritative answer -- I'm pretty certain the Nova Scotia Chess Association functions in the same way as New Brunswick, as reported by Ken Craft.

Wolfgang(Wilf) FERNER
12-04-2008, 12:00 PM
Bob: CFC Bylaw 2 #1 Assembly of Governors starts with the phrase:

"Those persons elected or appointed as Governors by a provincial or
territorial association....."

So there is a choice: elections are not mandatory!!

Wilf Ferner

Bob Armstrong
12-04-2008, 12:28 PM
Hi Wilf:

I'm not sure you are right. Contrast that with:

CFC Bylaw 1

ORDINARY MEMBERSHIP

5. ... Every Ordinary or Life Member has a right to vote on the appointment or election of the Governor or Governors who will represent his Provincial Organization at the assembly of Governors

and

CFC Rules and Regulations, Article 1

SELECTION OF GOVERNORS BY PROVINCIAL ORGANIZATION

9. As soon as possible after the receipt by a Provincial Organization of the aforementioned Certificate, such body will convene a meeting of its Federation Members for the purpose of electing its necessary number of nominees for the Board for the ensuing term.

It seems to me that the regime clearly envisions a " vote " by the CFC Members. Of course, the CFC Handbook, etc. is not a paragon of drafting - we may simply be running into poor drafting here, which is giving rise to possible alternate interpretations. But I think, looking at all three sections together, the intent seems to be for a vote, not appointment without any vote by members.

And what this is clearly showing is that in any event the Handbook needs to be revised to clearly state what the intention of the governors is on this issue.

Bob

Jonathan Berry
12-04-2008, 01:09 PM
CFC Governors in BC are elected by members present at the annual meeting, held between rounds at the Keres Memorial in Vancouver. There's a weakness even in that, because other parts of BC have their democracy diluted; they have to rely on the goodwill (usually forthcoming) of those Lower Mainlanders present, in order to achieve regional representation. It can be tricky. 50 members deserve the representation of a governor, but when you have isolated pockets of 12, 17, 5, 3, 1, 1, 1 ... members, how do you choose a rep?

The flaws in democracy of OCA selection of CFC Governors is very old news.

I offered, directly to the CFC members, to volunteer the work for mail election of governors (with ballots to go out with the CFC magazine), but there was profound apathy. The year was about 1980, give or take a couple. I was just trying to protect the one member right guaranteed in the CFC Constitution.

"Personally", I don't think OMOV is a panacea, or even necessarily a good thing. A OMOV for President would only rarely have changed the result in CFC history, because in general the new Pres. is acclaimed, or sometimes there is another candidate who would get very few votes anyway. So it is effort and expense for no change.

It's different in the US. Elections are contested, lawsuits are launched ....

Jonathan Berry
12-04-2008, 01:12 PM
Yeah, OK, before somebody else says it: with OMOV you might get new good candidates who otherwise would not put themselves forward because of the perceived old boys' networkishness of the CFC.

OTOH, in USCF you had contested elections even before OMOV.

Peter McKillop
12-04-2008, 06:09 PM
The flaws in democracy of OCA selection of CFC Governors is very old news. ... I offered, directly to the CFC members, to volunteer the work for mail election of governors (with ballots to go out with the CFC magazine), but there was profound apathy. The year was about 1980...

More recently, about 8 1/2 years ago, a number of people, me included, pursued the matter at ChessTalk, with then-President of the OCA Roger Langen - nothing changed.



"Personally", I don't think OMOV is a panacea, or even necessarily a good thing. A OMOV for President would only rarely have changed the result in CFC history, because in general the new Pres. is acclaimed, or sometimes there is another candidate who would get very few votes anyway. So it is effort and expense for no change.

OMOV would have a better chance of being useful, an improvement even, if candidates for CFC executive positions were required to declare their intentions and post their qualifications/platform well in advance of the vote.

Michael Barron
12-05-2008, 12:20 AM
I confirm Egidijus's memory - every CFC member present at the GTCL Annual Meeting was allowed to vote for the CFC Governors.
The problem was - not too many CFC members were present, and not too many were willing to serve as the CFC Governors ... :confused:

Even you, Bob, at the time of the GTCL Annual Meeting didn't express you interest... :rolleyes:

Bob Armstrong
12-05-2008, 02:56 AM
Hi Michael:

It's good to know the CFC members were given the vote. The outstanding issue though, as I wrote to you, is to clarify in the GTCL constitution that this is how it is done, because at best the current wording is ambiguous.

Also there is the issue that Ontario is electing its govenors unconstitutionally. This is because the members are only getting to vote to " nominate " a person for CFC Governor. Then these nominations go to the OCA Annual Meeting, where it is the OCA Governors who then do the electing. This is unconstitutional under the CFC rules, that say the CFC members must do the electing ! We need an OCA Constitution amendment to recognize that the regions " elect " the CFC Governors, not the OCA Governors.

Bob