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View Full Version : 19. Suggested Items for the April Meeting



Christopher Field
01-06-2012, 02:12 PM
Motion (moved by Christopher Field, seconded by Pierre Dénommée):
That Crosstables / Tableaux de résultats be posted on the CFC website in the international format, using the symbols + for win, - for loss, = for draw.

Discussion:
This is the format used in all international chess books.
It is readily understood by people who speak any language.
We need to remove the default use of English symbols in this, our BILINGUAL country.
The Swiss Sys software has these symbols readily available for all TDs to use. Unfortunately, they are referred to as "Math Symbols" instead of "International" or "multilingual" symbols.
The forms which TDs submit for rating could be modified to change the standings to this format, even if the TD has not used it.
I would also like to see an attempt made to update all old results to this format, but I realise that would take some time and expense, so I would start with new events.
This would help to make the French language website more effective.

Lyle Craver
01-07-2012, 10:02 PM
This thread has been opened to allow Governors to post items they would like to see on the agenda for the April meeting.

Bob Armstrong
01-07-2012, 11:05 PM
This thread has been opened to allow Governors to post items they would like to see on the agenda for the April meeting.

I would like to look at the issue of member volunteers, and specifically whether any can be conscripted to sit on the Long Term Planning Committee and the Membership Drive Committee.

This is an initiative of the Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) - they posted on the discussion boards on this on Dec. 9, 2011.

Bob A, GTCL Gov./CCC Coordinator

Pierre Dénommée
01-08-2012, 12:12 AM
We need a TDOCP motion. I will put some flesh on this proposal later.

Michael von Keitz
01-08-2012, 12:29 AM
We need a TDOCP motion. I will put some flesh on this proposal later.

Pierre, Simon Ong and Hal Bond will be actively pursuing an improved motion for submission to the next quarterly meeting. I'd advise you to get in touch with both of them in order to coordinate your efforts.

Christopher Mallon
01-08-2012, 10:14 AM
Posting it for discussion ahead of time might avoid problems too.

Paul Leblanc
01-08-2012, 01:56 PM
I plan to recommend an improved bonus point formula. I hope, if possible, to also recommend some action to address under-rated juniors.

Pierre Dénommée
01-08-2012, 11:35 PM
On a FIDE report, + means unrated forfeit win and - means unrated forfeit loss.

A good change that I am willing to second would to to change for 0, 1 and ½ for games that have been played and + and - for unrated forfeits.




Motion (moved by Christopher Field, seconded by Pierre Dénommée):
That Crosstables / Tableaux de résultats be posted on the CFC website in the international format, using the symbols + for win, - for loss, = for draw.

Discussion:
This is the format used in all international chess books.
It is readily understood by people who speak any language.
We need to remove the default use of English symbols in this, our BILINGUAL country.
The Swiss Sys software has these symbols readily available for all TDs to use. Unfortunately, they are referred to as "Math Symbols" instead of "International" or "multilingual" symbols.
The forms which TDs submit for rating could be modified to change the standings to this format, even if the TD has not used it.
I would also like to see an attempt made to update all old results to this format, but I realise that would take some time and expense, so I would start with new events.
This would help to make the French language website more effective.

Christopher Field
01-09-2012, 04:19 PM
On a FIDE report, + means unrated forfeit win and - means unrated forfeit loss.

A good change that I am willing to second would to to change for 0, 1 and ½ for games that have been played and + and - for unrated forfeits.

Pierre, I am not sure on this.
We are talking here about crosstables or tableaux de résultats.
Numbers refer to the opponents.
Currently, the symbols used for the results are the default English language abbreviations W for win, L for loss, D for draw.

I am just talking about replacing these symbols with the language-neutral symbols + for win, - for loss, = for draw.

I hope that this will be acceptable:
In a tournament of 30 players and 5 rounds, for example, a possible line for player #12 goes:
12. name rating +24 -6 =14 +8 -4 2.5 (final score)

instead of
12. name rating W24 L6 D14 W8 L4 2.5

The crosstables / tableaux de résultats are displayed in both the Englsih and French websites.
I think it is much better that language-neutral symbols be used, rather than English based symbols.

Chris Field.

Lyle Craver
01-09-2012, 06:31 PM
I agree with Chris but win lose and draw are not the only outcomes of a game.

We have 1-bye, 1/2-bye, 0-bye, 1-forfeit and 0-forfeit. Any others I've forgotten? Each have different meanings with respect to ratings and tiebreaks.

My bottom line is that as long the software can support it - that we don't have to designate some poor 'volunteer' to change the more obscure results in cross-tables - I'm all for it.

I have always been strongly in favor of French-language services in the CFC as I am well aware that the CFC's name includes the words "OF CANADA" even if I may have from time to time rolled my eyes at some of the things I've seen coming from the FQE and AEM.

We don't have the resources to do everything the FQE would like (and much of what they like is inimical to the CFC) but what we can do we should and this is one of them.

Valer Eugen Demian
01-09-2012, 07:03 PM
How about bringing forward a volunteer any time a change like this is required? With all due respect the World we live in has become much smaller for this petty continuous cry for bilingual services without any alternative provided in the same time.

There are thousands of languages in the World and possibly hundreds spoken in this bilingual country of ours. If I would want anything also translated in Romanian, I would offer my services to perform that translation. Of course I do understand French is an official language (I do know it BTW...), but the logic behind my point stands!

Kevin Pacey
01-09-2012, 07:21 PM
I would like to look at the issue of member volunteers, and specifically whether any can be conscripted to sit on the Long Term Planning Committee and the Membership Drive Committee.

This is an initiative of the Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) - they posted on the discussion boards on this on Dec. 9, 2011.

Bob A, GTCL Gov./CCC Coordinator

Given the limited resources available to the Membership Drive Committee, I think that committee presently has enough committee members. In fact, after our committee finishes emails to the list of 2167 ex-members ED Gerry Litchfield sent us, I am presently inclined to at that point recommend to President von Keitz that the Membership Drive Committee be disbanded.

If the CFC advertising budget for this term were to become greater than nil, I would have wished that we had an Executive officer on this committee who would have had authority to sign agreements on behalf of the CFC [edit: he or she could be outside the committee, however, and still sign cheques for a committee member to expend]. This was the case last year, when the Membership Drive Committee then consisted of 2010-2011 CFC President Gillanders. In case we need to be refreshed with CFC Handbook regulations, here are those for what I think may be pertanent to this (from section 2 of the Handbook):

CONTRACTS

9. (a) All contracts, engagements, and formal arrangements, shall be signed by one of the President or the Vice-President, together with one of the Secretary or Treasurer; provided that the Assembly of Governors may by resolution appoint any other Officer to sign on a specific occasion; the seal of the corporation, when requested may be affixed to contracts, documents and instruments in writing signed as aforesaid or by any officer or officers appointed by the Assembly of Governors.

CHEQUES

b) The Assembly of Governors may appoint all necessary signing Officers in connection with any bank accounts in the name of the Federation and in default of any specific required, all cheques and withdrawals shall be sufficiently signed on behalf of the Federation, if signed by one of the President or the Vice-President, together with one of the Secretary or the Treasurer, and all deposits or routine banking transactions shall be sufficiently signed or authenticated by the signature of any individual officer.


CFC Membership Drive Committee Chairman Kevin Pacey
Ottawa

Pierre Dénommée
01-09-2012, 09:35 PM
I agree with Chris but win lose and draw are not the only outcomes of a game.

We have 1-bye, 1/2-bye, 0-bye, 1-forfeit and 0-forfeit. Any others I've forgotten?

You forgot 1/2-0 and 0-1/2 (cell phone ring or third illegal move but the opponent cannot deliver mate with a series of legal moves).

1-1/2 and 1/2-1 are theoretically possibles. Even 1-1 is not forbidden but that would bring the game of Chess into disrepute and the players in other games would likely appeal. Also, this would produce rating inflation.

13.4


The arbiter can apply one or more of the following penalties:

warning
increasing the remaining time of the opponent
reducing the remaining time of the offending player
declaring the game to be lost
reducing the points scored in the game by the offending party
increasing the points scored in the game by the opponent to the maximum available for that game
expulsion from the event.

Christopher Field
01-09-2012, 11:49 PM
You forgot 1/2-0 and 0-1/2 (cell phone ring or third illegal move but the opponent cannot deliver mate with a series of legal moves.

1-1/2 and 1/2-1 are theoretically possibles. Even 1-1 is not forbidden but that would bring the game of Chess into disrepute and the players in other games would likely appeal. Also, this would produce rating inflation.

13.4


The arbiter can apply one or more of the following penalties:

warning
increasing the remaining time of the opponent
reducing the remaining time of the offending player
declaring the game to be lost
reducing the points scored in the game by the offending party
increasing the points scored in the game by the opponent to the maximum available for that game
expulsion from the event.

I am only talking about the symbols which are readily available in Swiss Sys.
Yes, for other situations than over-the-board results, the symbols remain as they are:
H = half-point bye ; B = full-point bye ; U = unpaired (withdrawn).

I have searched recent tournaments, and I cannot find other situations, but I am sure there are symbols for:
forfeit win ; forfeit loss ; whatever else.

Yes, some of these symbols will be based on English words.
But these other results are relatively infrequent.

At least by using + , - , and = for over-the-board results, we can reduce the use of symbols based on English words for most of the crosstables.

Chris Field.

Pierre Dénommée
01-10-2012, 12:49 AM
I have seen the crosstables on the CFC website and I understand the problem.




I am only talking about the symbols which are readily available in Swiss Sys.
Yes, for other situations than over-the-board results, the symbols remain as they are:
H = half-point bye ; B = full-point bye ; U = unpaired (withdrawn).

I have searched recent tournaments, and I cannot find other situations, but I am sure there are symbols for:
forfeit win ; forfeit loss ; whatever else.

Yes, some of these symbols will be based on English words.
But these other results are relatively infrequent.

At least by using + , - , and = for over-the-board results, we can reduce the use of symbols based on English words for most of the crosstables.

Chris Field.

Lyle Craver
01-10-2012, 04:11 AM
At one time the Office required crosstables to be in the + - = format for submission and I spent a lot of time translating my crosstables for submission!

I assure you it was no fun at all and I was using MS Word + E-mail for my submissions so there was nothing automatic about it.

I think this is a move we should be proceeding with and if we require a dozen or so exception codes for the obscure off the wall stuff then this is something that should not unduly burden the Office.

Do we have a consensus that the REALLY obscure stuff wouldn't happen more than once every 25 tournaments or so? (i.e. anything other than +, -, =, the various results involving byes and the 1-0 or 0-1 forfeit)

Do we REALLY need a special result for 'game adjourned due to PCB's from blown ballasts dripping on the table'? (I actually had that in a Manitoba Open I directed some 25 years ago) I think not!

Egidijus Zeromskis
01-10-2012, 09:53 AM
crosstables

Some time ago crosstables had towns/cities where the events took place. Now it is only province. Can it be corrected to show a more exact place?

Fred McKim
01-10-2012, 12:22 PM
I agree with Chris but win lose and draw are not the only outcomes of a game.

We have 1-bye, 1/2-bye, 0-bye, 1-forfeit and 0-forfeit. Any others I've forgotten? Each have different meanings with respect to ratings and tiebreaks.

My bottom line is that as long the software can support it - that we don't have to designate some poor 'volunteer' to change the more obscure results in cross-tables - I'm all for it.

I have always been strongly in favor of French-language services in the CFC as I am well aware that the CFC's name includes the words "OF CANADA" even if I may have from time to time rolled my eyes at some of the things I've seen coming from the FQE and AEM.

We don't have the resources to do everything the FQE would like (and much of what they like is inimical to the CFC) but what we can do we should and this is one of them.

Any such changes will require changes to the rating program, so any such approved motion would be subject to available funding to support it.

Christopher Field
01-10-2012, 01:50 PM
Any such changes will require changes to the rating program, so any such approved motion would be subject to available funding to support it.

Fred, are you saying that the rating programme reads the results W, L, or D, as well as the symbols for other results?
It should be a relatively simple fix.
Again, we're not asking to change other symbols - only the 3 symbols for over-the-board played games.
Lyle notes that the symbols + , - , = were in fact originally used.
They are available in Swiss Sys. The only other change required is to modify the forms which TDs submit. Thad Suits may have to do this. Again, it should be a very simple fix.

Chris Field.

Vladimir Drkulec
01-10-2012, 02:08 PM
I would like to look at the issue of member volunteers, and specifically whether any can be conscripted to sit on the Long Term Planning Committee and the Membership Drive Committee.

This is an initiative of the Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) - they posted on the discussion boards on this on Dec. 9, 2011.

Bob A, GTCL Gov./CCC Coordinator

I think that anyone who was willing to serve would probably be accepted on either committee. Conscription could lead to a constitutional crisis.

Bob Armstrong
01-10-2012, 10:28 PM
I think that anyone who was willing to serve would probably be accepted on either committee. Conscription could lead to a constitutional crisis.

Hi Vlad:

Ouch! My bad - conscription was a rather poor choice of words for sure!

What I'm looking for is some CFC pro-active effort to get a member volunteer. I guess I'm thinking of a post outlining what the committee mandate is, who sits on it, and when it will hold its next conference e-mailing, along with an invitation that a member committee member would add a lot to the committee.

I'm not saying it will get any response, but I think CFC needs to do this on a regular basis to show openness to new blood.

Bob A

Michael Barron
01-11-2012, 12:54 AM
Maybe we could finally see Youth Program fund financial report?

We saw only some words from "special committee", but it would be much better to see plain numbers.

$5000 deficit?
after record-breaking CYCC?? :confused:

I could only say that the previous 2 years, with modest $16K CYCC contribution, we not only didn't spend more, but even managed to save some money for the future...
and out WYCC coaches (IM and ICM) worked as volunteers, without any honorarium... ;)

Maybe such decisions should be more transparent for the Assembly of Governors?

Ken Craft
01-11-2012, 09:15 AM
I don't recall you arguing for this level of transparency when you were a member of the executive. I'm glad that you now see the value of executive decisions being transparent to the Governors.

Bob Gillanders
01-11-2012, 06:05 PM
Maybe we could finally see Youth Program fund financial report?

We saw only some words from "special committee", but it would be much better to see plain numbers.

$5000 deficit?
after record-breaking CYCC?? :confused:

I could only say that the previous 2 years, with modest $16K CYCC contribution, we not only didn't spend more, but even managed to save some money for the future...
and out WYCC coaches (IM and ICM) worked as volunteers, without any honorarium... ;)

Maybe such decisions should be more transparent for the Assembly of Governors?

My apologies Michael. I had planned on an update for the meeting, but I was unable to finish it in time. Some of the cheques for the WYCC didn't get cut until the third quarter, so the numbers I had unto the end of the second quarter (Oct/2011) really didn't give a complete picture of the CYCC/WYCC 2011 cycle. Once Gerry has the third quarter statements done (Jan/2012), I will update my numbers and complete the report.

As you know, we had a very successful CYCC generating an extra surplus of 18.2k which was paid out to the players. Consequently, prize money for our champions and all team expenses had to be covered by the 20k, similar to 2010. I don't have the final numbers yet, but it should be close to break even. Again, sorry for the delay.

Michael Barron
01-12-2012, 12:00 AM
My apologies Michael. I had planned on an update for the meeting, but I was unable to finish it in time. Some of the cheques for the WYCC didn't get cut until the third quarter, so the numbers I had unto the end of the second quarter (Oct/2011) really didn't give a complete picture of the CYCC/WYCC 2011 cycle. Once Gerry has the third quarter statements done (Jan/2012), I will update my numbers and complete the report.

As you know, we had a very successful CYCC generating an extra surplus of 18.2k which was paid out to the players. Consequently, prize money for our champions and all team expenses had to be covered by the 20k, similar to 2010. I don't have the final numbers yet, but it should be close to break even. Again, sorry for the delay.

Thank you, Bob, for information!

I was concerned about CYCC Surplus Committee Report that said:
"The end result was the $20,000 paid to the CFC was insufficient to send all of the players, coaches and heads of delegation to Brazil and the CFC lost about $5,000 instead of building up a healthy surplus in the Youth program fund".

I would think, this statement is ... mmm ... misleading, to put it mildly. :rolleyes:

To be honest, I have some reservations about your statement
"As you know, we had a very successful CYCC generating an extra surplus of 18.2k which was paid out to the players" as well.
At least, I know nothing about later part. ;)

If it is true - what was all the fuss at the AGM about? :confused:

Hopefully, from your report it will be clear who got 18.2k of extra surplus and who got the 20k of team expenses.

Thank you again for your work!

Aris Marghetis
01-12-2012, 02:14 PM
Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Governor's forum? I ask that because wouldn't most people stop coming to this forum, in the understanding that this meeting is over?

Best regards.

Bob Gillanders
01-12-2012, 03:30 PM
Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Governor's forum? I ask that because wouldn't most people stop coming to this forum, in the understanding that this meeting is over?

Best regards.

You make a good point, but a lot of governors don't visit the board between meetings anyways. I will endeavour to get the report finished and posted on the governors board ASAP and not wait until next meeting.

Aris Marghetis
01-12-2012, 03:46 PM
You make a good point, but a lot of governors don't visit the board between meetings anyways. I will endeavour to get the report finished and posted on the governors board ASAP and not wait until next meeting.
Hmmm, maybe we have mis-communicated. I made my point because this thread was the only one left open here. I was hoping someone like yourself would reply something like : "We are closing this thread here, and moving it to the Governor forum. In fact, we are closing this meeting, so you can delete this bookmark, and just focus on the Governor forum" (and the CFC Chat forum, and ChessTalk, but I digress, lol) ... thanks!

Bob Armstrong
01-15-2012, 11:06 AM
It has been about a week now since Michael's car accident. When I communicated with him shortly after it, he said he maybe had a mild concussion but was otherwise fine, and he expected to be back to the meeting in a few days. The meeting is still ongoing, and I just wondered if he is OK, since his return seems to have been delayed?

Bob A

Aris Marghetis
01-15-2012, 05:48 PM
It has been about a week now since Michael's car accident. When I communicated with him shortly after it, he said he maybe had a mild concussion but was otherwise fine, and he expected to be back to the meeting in a few days. The meeting is still ongoing, and I just wondered if he is OK, since his return seems to have been delayed?

Bob A
Oh my goodness, I had no idea about a car accident. I hope he's OK. Does anyone know?

Bob Gillanders
01-15-2012, 10:56 PM
Oh my goodness, I had no idea about a car accident. I hope he's OK. Does anyone know?

I got emails from him on thursday and friday. He did not mention any car accident.

Fred McKim
01-16-2012, 01:39 PM
I got emails from him on thursday and friday. He did not mention any car accident.

He's in much better shape than his car. He's been active in e-mails and I'm sure is working through his list of priorities.

Michael von Keitz
01-17-2012, 12:03 AM
My head got a good shake, but I'm otherwise okay. I'll close this thread now. I had intended to make closing remarks, but fate was against that happening in a timely fashion, so I'll just say it was an excellent meeting, not withstanding a few flubs on my part. I look forward to a revised TDOCP motion coming to the floor in April. In the meantime, Lyle and I will work on summarizing these threads and closing up shop!