13. CYCC Eligibility Motion (Motion 2012-A)

[Lyle Craver]

Motion 2011 – A – Participation in the Canadian Youth Chess Championships

Moved – Michael Barron; Seconded – Bob Armstrong

Moved –

a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

c) add to p. 1001. Frequency, after the words “ World 10 Championship “ the words “ and World 8 Championship “.

d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

e) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

f) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:

A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

g) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

h) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

(editorial note: Governors interested in previous discussion on this subject may want to check out http://www.chesscanada.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1956&page=4)

[Christopher Mallon]

I move to divide the motion into two parts. Part one will be the portions referring to sections 1007 and 1057, and part two will be everything else, as shown below. Reasoning is that everything else is "housekeeping" of the rules but 1007 and 1057 are actual changes which have proven to be controversial.

http://www.netplaces.com/roberts-rules/not-so-incidental/division-of-the-question-motion.htm As per Robert's Rules if my motion to divide is seconded it goes to immediate vote without further discussion.

Divided motions would be:


#1
a) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

b) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.



#2

a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

c) add to p. 1001. Frequency, after the words “ World 10 Championship “ the words “ and World 8 Championship “.

d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

e) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:

1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:

A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

f) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

[Ken Jensen]

I will second the motion to separate this proposal.

[Christopher Mallon]

Lyle/Michael, as an administrative suggestion since I don't think we have rules for this precise situation, you could open a vote on the motion to divide and allow discussion to proceed here in the meantime on the actual motion(s). Have the vote to divide close just before the voting on the actual motion begins.

[Lyle Craver]

I will accept Chris' proposal to put it to a vote and thus have set it up for IMMEDIATE voting will polling to end at the time main voting on the motion is to begin.

Mr. President is that acceptable?

[Michael von Keitz]

Excellent, Lyle!

[Christopher Mallon]

Great, thanks.
For those who may have missed it, the poll is actually above the first post in this thread.

Now, on to discussing the motion itself.

I support the "housekeeping" portion of this motion. I do not support the portions pertaining to 1007 and 1057. I would, however, accept a compromise between the existing and the proposed rules - that a player must be eligible for the FIDE event (WYCC or World Junior) that the tournament leads to. In other words they must have 12 months of residency as of the start of the World event, rather than the start of the Canadian event.

[Lyle Craver]

Thanks Michael.

And especially thanks to the mover and seconder for the change to 1057 - for me it has always been oxymoronic to let a player play in a qualifying event if he/she is not eligible to play in the event that the tournament qualifies one for.

Actually it's been a personal sore point since I well remember one tournament back when I was a very young junior where I was tied at 5/5 going into the last round with a junior (who was NOT eligible for the next level event), lost to him and saw the player who had been at 4.5/5 (who normally would have been my last round opponent and who I naturally thought I would have crushed!) qualify instead of me. 40 years later I still remember it sadly...

[Michael Barron]

Sorry, Lyle, if it escaped your attention, but mover and seconder asked you to update the text of the Motion:
p.1001 should be changed to read:
"1001. Frequency:
A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian Champions and Canadian representatives to all international youth chess competitions".

The correct full text of the CYCC Eligibility Motion is the following:

"Motion 2011 – A – Participation in the Canadian Youth Chess Championships

Moved - Michael Barron; Seconded – Bob Armstrong

Moved –

a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

c) p. 1001 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1001. Frequency:
A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian Champions and Canadian representatives to all international youth chess competitions.

d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

e) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

f) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:
A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

g) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

h) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors."

Commentary:

a) The old title of the section is misleading since “ junior “ is now thought of as the U-20 junior championship, and “ cadet “ refers to U-16. But the section really deals with all 12 categories of “ youth “ championships. P. 1000. Events: reads:
The holding of the Canadian Youth Chess Championship (CYCC) which consists of the following twelve events:
Canadian Under 18 Championship {Open and Girls}
Canadian Under 16 Championship {Open and Girls}
Canadian Under 14 Championship {Open and Girls}
Canadian Under 12 Championship {Open and Girls}
Canadian Under 10 Championship {Open and Girls}
Canadian Under 8 Championship {Open and Girls}
So the title should simply and clearly refer to these events using the common titles.

b) The title is made consistent with the later title for the Junior Championship.

c) p. 1001. “ Frequency “ should clarify the main purpose of CYCC. Here is the old text:
1001. Frequency:
A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian representatives to the World 18 Championship, World 16 Championship, World 14 Championship, World 12 Championship, World 10 Championship. Each of these tournament is hereinafter referred to as the "Youth Tournament".

d) The CYCC is more recently a 7-round tournament spread over 4 days, and p. 1002 has never been amended to catch up to this change on the ground. Our amendment brings the section into line with recent practice, though one could still be only three days under this wording. The old p. 1002. Format read:
The tournament shall be swiss tournament held over three days with the number of rounds to be decided by the tournament organizers taking into account the number and age of the players.

{Motion Palsson/Doubleday 2007-08 GL1 From AGM} When there are less than eight players for any category, then one or more categories shall be combined so that there are no less than 8 players in the combined category. The combined category shall be decided by the tournament organizers unless directed otherwise by the CFC President who shall hve the final authority to rule on this matter. Where the shortfall occurs in the girls U18, it is recommended that this section be combined with the girls U16. If their insufficient numbers in this combined U18 & U16 girls section, then the U14 Girls should be included with both these sections.

e) The current p. 1007 restricts Permanent Resident rights, with a “ residency “ requirement for eligibility. It reads:
1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:
Each contestant in a Youth Tournament must fulfil the age and residency requirements specified by FIDE for the World event to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a landed immigrant and be a resident of Canada for the twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament. Persons who are not citizens or landed immigrants but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.
Canadian law now refers to “ landed immigrants “ as “ Permanent Residents “, and this change has been made.
There are very few Canadian rights that a citizen has, that a " Permanent Resident " does not have. And CFC must be very careful not to unwarrantedly restrict those rights.
As well, most Permanent Residents eventually take out Canadian citizenship. Many of those who keep their own country citizenship when they come to Canada, do so for a variety of reasons, but never have any intention of returning to their own country on any permanent basis. They all pay taxes, and contribute to their local Canadian communities. Then there are some for whom it is only a convenience for possible future use - but nonetheless, they have adopted Canada as their country of permanent residence, and have gained most Canadian rights and are entitled to use the term “ Canadian “.

So, from a Canadian perspective, we want to eliminate the " prior residency " rule for participation in Canadian youth chess tournaments. We feel this respects the legal status of a Permanent Resident as a " Canadian ". They are entitled to play in the national youth championships, even if they have just taken up Canadian permanent residency.

This does leave CFC though, with a restrictive FIDE rule which distinguishes between citizenship, and permanent residence ( and all other status ), for the purpose of which federation flag a person can put on their chess table in FIDE tournaments. CFC will have to live with this for the time being ( might we apply to FIDE to get this changed at some future date, for an accommodation to Canadian law ? ), and blame FIDE for a rule that " interferes with Canadian rights ". Yes, CFC will have to comply for international tournaments. But we do not have to compound the error by imposing a Canadian “ residency “ restriction.

Besides believing it is right to delete the residency requirement, we are also concerned there could be a successful lawsuit to strike down a " residency " prohibition, that represses a Canadian permanent resident right, like playing in a national Canadian chess championship.

f) We have introduced into the section 10 the Girls Junior Championship, which has been in place for a few years now.

g) We have brought the schedule for the Junior Championship in line with the length in recent years.

h) We have dealt with p. 1057 which has a “ residency “ requirement, consistently with the way we have amended the comparable section for the Canadian Youth Chess Championships above.

[Pierre Dénommée]

Is there still a need to vote on the division of the original motion?

[Christopher Mallon]

Is there still a need to vote on the division of the original motion?

Why wouldn't there be?

[Ellen Nadeau]

I do not share Michael's views that non citizens and non permanent residents should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.
There is even further questions for me. I had refused participation in a CYCC to a Canadian citizen who held multiple citizenships and was listed with another country for FIDE. As they would be ineligible to represent Canada at the subsequent WYCC, I refused entry to the CYCC. If we accept someone who cannot receive the stated prize award those who play against them will complain also.
Which way do we want to go on this question?

[Michael Barron]

...
And especially thanks to the mover and seconder for the change to 1057 - for me it has always been oxymoronic to let a player play in a qualifying event if he/she is not eligible to play in the event that the tournament qualifies one for.
...

Lyle,

Let's be clear here:
CYCC is first of all a Canadian Championship!
Yes, we use CYCC results to qualify payers to WYCC, Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and other international events, but all this is a secondary goal.
We should encourage all Canadians to participate at CYCC.

So, the question actually is:
When a Permanent Resident becomes a Canadian:
when he arrives to Canada or only 12 months later?

[Michael Barron]

I do not share Michael's views that non citizens and non permanent residents should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.
There is even further questions for me. I had refused participation in a CYCC to a Canadian citizen who held multiple citizenships and was listed with another country for FIDE. As they would be ineligible to represent Canada at the subsequent WYCC, I refused entry to the CYCC. If we accept someone who cannot receive the stated prize award those who play against them will complain also.
Which way do we want to go on this question?

Ellen,

Sorry, if I was not clear enough... :(

I never said that non citizens and non permanent residents should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.

What I'm saying is:
permanent residents, as well as citizens, should be eligible to participate in the CYCC.

As for your second question, let me remind you:
the current Canadian Under 18 Champion Loren Laceste in July was listed with another country for FIDE, and as such was ineligible to represent Canada.

Do you think we shouldn't allow him to play at CYCC because of that?
Do you think Arthur Calugar will complain that he was unfairly knocked out of his Championship title in the last round? :confused:

[Ken Jensen]

I agree Ellen,

CYCC is first and foremost the qualifier to determine Canada's representatives to the WYCC. Any rule change that allows players into CYCC who are not eligible for WYCC is just wrong. This is a very bad idea. There is no way for them to attend without affecting the players who are eligible.

The bottom line is every player at the CYCC must be able to represent Canada at the WYCC.

Ken Jensen

[Ken Jensen]

Sorry to disagree Michael, but you should know CFC rule 1001 states the CYCC IS to determine the Canadian representatives to WYCC. Unless and until your rule change is passed it will remain so. This WYCC eligibility is essential.

You do raise a good point regarding flags. This is a point which the rules are mute on so I will offer my opinion. Canadian representatives to WYCC MUST be flagged Canadian with fide. If a foreign flagged player meets the other eligibility requirements and the CFC has a reasonable expectation that fide will transfer the player's flag to Canada before the start of WYCC then the player should be permitted to play in the CYCC. Otherwise No.

Ken Jensen

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Sorry to disagree Michael, but you should know CFC rule 1001 states the CYCC IS to determine the Canadian representatives to WYCC. Unless and until your rule change is passed it will remain so. This WYCC eligibility is essential.

Would a player must be expelled from the tournament if a player would have no plans to attend the WYCC? (He has a lot of potential to ruin others) (The similar case was in a recent Canadian Closed, when the co-winner waived his right to play in the World Cup.)

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Lyle,

Let's be clear here:
CYCC is first of all a Canadian Championship!
Yes, we use CYCC results to qualify payers to WYCC, Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and other international events, but all this is a secondary goal.
We should encourage all Canadians to participate at CYCC.

So, the question actually is:
When a Permanent Resident becomes a Canadian:
when he arrives to Canada or only 12 months later?

A Permanent Resident is allowed to apply for citizenship ONLY AFTER it has spent a total of minimum 3 years (continuous or in segments) in the country!

[Michael Barron]

A Permanent Resident is allowed to apply for citizenship ONLY AFTER it has spent a total of minimum 3 years (continuous or in segments) in the country!

Valer,

Sorry, if I was not clear enough... :(

The question is not about citizenship.
All Governors understand that both categories - citizens and permanent residents - are Canadians.
Hopefully, you wan't insist that only citizens could play at Canadian Championship.

The question is:
When a permanent resident could work in Canada?
When a permanent resident could attend a school in Canada?
When a permanent resident could pay Canadian taxes? :confused:

[Michael Barron]

Sorry to disagree Michael, but you should know CFC rule 1001 states the CYCC IS to determine the Canadian representatives to WYCC. Unless and until your rule change is passed it will remain so. This WYCC eligibility is essential.

You do raise a good point regarding flags. This is a point which the rules are mute on so I will offer my opinion. Canadian representatives to WYCC MUST be flagged Canadian with fide. If a foreign flagged player meets the other eligibility requirements and the CFC has a reasonable expectation that fide will transfer the player's flag to Canada before the start of WYCC then the player should be permitted to play in the CYCC. Otherwise No.

Ken Jensen

Ken,

You're free to disagree, but CYCC IS the Canadian Championship for the following reasons:
1) the name of the event is Canadian Youth Chess Championship;
2) it determines the Canadian representatives not only to WYCC, but as well to Pan American YCC, North American YCC, and other international competitions;
3) I agree to change rule 1001 to avoid misunderstanding.

But I agree with you on the point regarding flags.
It demonstrates that CYCC eligibility and WYCC eligibility are 2 different issues, and the latest could be considered after CYCC.

[Christopher Mallon]

I would like to propose an amendment to the motion, either the original or the split as it turns out.



1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Additionally, the player must be registered or in the process of registering as a Canadian with FIDE, and must be eligible to represent Canada under FIDE rules at the World Youth Chess Championship for which this event is a qualifier.

1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Additionally, the player must be registered or in the process of registering as a Canadian with FIDE, and must be eligible to represent Canada under FIDE rules at the World Junior Championship for which this event is a qualifier.
I removed the sections about non-Citizens/Permanent Residents being allowed to compete and added the part about needing to be eligible for the WYCC. Also note that for someone with no FIDE registration, signing up for the CYCC would constitute being in the process of registering as a Canadian with FIDE, so this won't exclude new players.

Seconder anyone?

[Fred McKim]

I don't know I think what you are trying to say is that a player must not be registered for another country, or if so in the process of applying for Canadian status.

I think they should have at least made the application before the CYCC (in other words not waiting to see if they need to).

[Christopher Mallon]

I don't know I think what you are trying to say is that a player must not be registered for another country, or if so in the process of applying for Canadian status.

I think they should have at least made the application before the CYCC (in other words not waiting to see if they need to).

No, my comment was about someone with NO FIDE registration - ie someone who has never played a FIDE event before. Someone who has, for another country, would have had to already have their application in process.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Chris:

I am often willing to entertain amendments to motions I am involved in, where it seems reasonable, or necessary to get something passed.

Unfortunately, I see this issue as one of equality rights in Canada ( regardless of what FIDE may have as regulations internationally ) with respect to Canadian Championships. I don't think we should compromise on such an important issue. So I would have to vote against your amendment, even though it is an improvement on what we have - but it does not meet the issue head on.

Here is the " Commentary " I drafted and which accompanied the filing of the motion, on the " residence restrictions " part of the motion:

e) The current p. 1007 restricts Permanent Resident rights, with a “ residency “ requirement for eligibility. It reads:

1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Youth Tournament must fulfil the age and residency requirements specified by FIDE for the World event to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a landed immigrant and be a resident of Canada for the twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament. Persons who are not citizens or landed immigrants but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

Canadian law now refers to “ landed immigrants “ as “ Permanent Residents “, and this change has been made. There are very few Canadian rights that a citizen has, that a " Permanent Resident " does not have. And CFC must be very careful not to unwarrantedly restrict those rights.
As well, most Permanent Residents eventually take out Canadian citizenship. Many of those who keep their own country citizenship when they come to Canada, do so for a variety of reasons, but never have any intention of returning to their own country on any permanent basis. They all pay taxes, and contribute to their local Canadian communities. Then there are some for whom it is only a convenience for possible future use - but nonetheless, they have adopted Canada as their country of permanent residence, and have gained most Canadian rights and are entitled to use the term “ Canadian “.

So, from a Canadian perspective, we want to eliminate the " prior residency " rule for participation in Canadian youth chess tournaments. We feel this respects the legal status of a Permanent Resident as a " Canadian ". They are entitled to play in the national youth championships, even if they have just taken up Canadian permanent residency.

This does leave CFC though, with a restrictive FIDE rule which distinguishes between citizenship, and permanent residence ( and all other status ), for the purpose of which federation flag a person can put on their chess table in FIDE tournaments. CFC will have to live with this for the time being ( might we apply to FIDE to get this changed at some future date, for an accommodation to Canadian law ? ), and blame FIDE for a rule that " interferes with Canadian rights ". Yes, CFC will have to comply for international tournaments. But we do not have to compound the error by imposing a Canadian “ residency “ restriction.

Besides believing it is right to delete the residency requirement, we are also concerned there could be a successful lawsuit to strike down a " residency " prohibition, that represses a Canadian permanent resident right, like playing in a national Canadian chess championship....

h) We have dealt with p. 1057 which has a “ residency “ requirement, consistently with the way we have amended the comparable section for the Canadian Youth Chess Championships above.

I would urge the governors to pass both parts of the split motion.

Bob A

[Fred McKim]

No, my comment was about someone with NO FIDE registration - ie someone who has never played a FIDE event before. Someone who has, for another country, would have had to already have their application in process.

Yes, the only person who there is an issue for is someone with a different flag.

[Patrick McDonald]

I have to disagree with Ken and Ellen.

The CYCC should be positioned FIRST and FOREMOST as the OFFICIAL CANADIAN YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP.

This tournaments primary objective should be to determine the Canadian Champions for Canada.

Secondarily, it should determine the players that are eligible to compete at the WYCC.

I am still undecided as to whether it should be also to determine who can compete at the NAYCC or Pan Am YCC.

The CFC's goal is to promote chess in CANADA.

We have to have a National Championship.

[Valer Eugen Demian]

Valer,

Sorry, if I was not clear enough... :(

The question is not about citizenship.
All Governors understand that both categories - citizens and permanent residents - are Canadians.
Hopefully, you wan't insist that only citizens could play at Canadian Championship.

The question is:
When a permanent resident could work in Canada?
When a permanent resident could attend a school in Canada?
When a permanent resident could pay Canadian taxes? :confused:

No, I do not want to insist that only citizens could play, far from it. My answer is identical for all 3 questions: as soon as they arrive in Canada and have applied/ received a SIN number.

I agree Permanent Residents should be able to play without any restrictions regading the time spent in Canada.

[Ken Jensen]

Hi Patrick,

I do not disagree on what the CYCC should be, and certainly won't argue against the fact that the CYCC winners are declared Canadian Champions for their age groups.

That doesn't change the fact that the CYCC is currently defined by the CFC rules as the qualifier for WYCC first and foremost. There are three Canadian Champion titles a junior can play for, the Junior, Youth and Scholastic Champion. Two of which are qualifiers for World events.

I would support a proposal to change the wording of 1001 to introduce the determination of the Canadian Champion. If fide follows through with the threatened split of WYCC into 2 events we may need to consider focusing our attention on a different event. Maybe then we will drop WYCC all together.

Ken Jensen

[Lyle Craver]

What Chris (supported by a fairly strong margin of Governors) seems to want is to put all the sections 1007 and 1057 material in one motion with the remainder in the other.

Based on Michael's 'updated' text that would seem to make things as follows:

=== Motion 1 ===
e) p. 1007 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1007. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Youth Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Youth Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors.

h) p. 1057 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1057. Age, Citizenship, and Residency for Canadian Championship:

Each contestant in a Canadian Junior Championship must fulfill the age requirements specified by FIDE for the World Junior Championship to which the winner of the Canadian event will qualify. Each player shall be either (i) a Canadian citizen or (ii) a Permanent Resident. Persons who are not citizens or permanent residents, but who have been a resident of Canada for a twelve-month period immediately preceding the tournament, may be admitted to the Tournament provided they can clearly demonstrate to the CFC Board of Directors that they have a settled intention to continue to reside in Canada. The admittance to the Tournament of such exceptions shall be entirely at the discretion of the CFC Board of Directors."

=== Motion 2 ===

"Motion 2011 – A – Participation in the Canadian Youth Chess Championships

Moved - Michael Barron; Seconded – Bob Armstrong

Moved –

a) the title of Section 10 of the CFC Handbook, “ Invitational Youth Championships: Junior, Cadet “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships “.

b) the title of p. 1000 of the CFC Handbook, “ Events: “, is deleted and replaced by “ Canadian Youth Chess Championship: “.

c) p. 1001 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1001. Frequency:
A Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine Canadian Champions and Canadian representatives to all international youth chess competitions.

d) in p. 1002. Format, the words “ three days “ are deleted, and replaced by “ up to four days “.

f) p. 1051 of Section 10, is deleted, and replaced by:
1051. Canadian Junior Chess Championship:
A Tournament known as the Canadian Junior Chess Championship hereinafter referred to as the Junior Tournament shall normally be held each year to determine the Canadian representative to the World Junior Chess Championship and consist of 2 sections - Open and Girls. When there are less than eight girls, then the sections shall be combined.

g) in p. 1052. Format, the words “eight round tournament held over four days “ are deleted, and replaced by “nine round tournament held over five days “.

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I am looking for feedback from the President plus Messrs. Armstrong and Barron as to whether this is acceptable.

If it is NOT acceptable then in fairness to the rest of the Governors this probably should be held over to the January meeting.

Unfortunately we are now to day 4 which is the prescribed date for the beginning of voting. At this point I think a 24 hr delay in opening the voting booth is called for - what do you folks think??

To summarize please folks, if you are going to have multiple versions of a motion please send me an e-mail saying "we withdraw A and offer B as a replacement" - it's the safest way to ensure there are no misunderstandings - but best not to make changes to a motion not received at all. There are some motions that I have seen as many as 4 revisions before hitting the GL or Online Meeting. I will not 'out' the culprits but that is both cruel and unusual punishment for the Executive and unfair to other Governors!

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Lyle:

1. Your division for new Motion 2012-A # 1, and 2012-A # 2, seem fine on my review. Thanks.

2. It seems that the overwhelming majority of governors wanted the motion split, and there has been vigorous debate on the " residency restriction ", so I think governors are already aware of the issues. I myself don't see why the voting couldn't start tonight as planned.

3. I have already posted my motion to amend the Zeromskis/ Barron motion 2012-E on the Canadian Junior Championship, and I would like it voted on before the main motion, and I am now searching out a seconder since no one has yet commented on my agenda item # 17 post. But if it will be helpful, I will also send you an e-mail on it.

Bob A

[Michael Barron]

Hi Lyle:

1. Your division for new Motion 2012-A # 1, and 2012-A # 2, seem fine on my review. Thanks.

2. It seems that the overwhelming majority of governors wanted the motion split, and there has been vigorous debate on the " residency restriction ", so I think governors are already aware of the issues. I myself don't see why the voting couldn't start tonight as planned.

3. I have already posted my motion to amend the Zeromskis/ Barron motion 2012-E on the Canadian Junior Championship, and I would like it voted on before the main motion, and I am now searching out a seconder since no one has yet commented on my agenda item # 17 post. But if it will be helpful, I will also send you an e-mail on it.

Bob A

Hi Lyle:

I agree with Bob on all points regarding Motion 2012-A:
Your division for new Motion 2012-A # 1, and 2012-A # 2, seem fine, and the voting could start tonight as planned.

[Michael von Keitz]

I apologize for not being available sooner. Commence voting on this motion, Lyle!

[Michael von Keitz]

An update of the text of the original motion was presented by Michael Barron, as had been filed with Lyle Craver, but was overlooked in the run-up to the meeting. A vote to split the original motion was applied to the subsequent update. Questions arising were those of who should be eligible to compete in the CYCC. Permanent residents and citizens were argued to be the eligible groups; however, that left the question of how to handle cases in which otherwise eligible players fly under the FIDE flag of a different country. The reply was that the CYCC determines Canadian Champions first and foremost and that WYCC eligibility/qualification should be of secondary importance. This sentiment was not unanimously supported. Chris Mallon presented an amendment to the motion that would have required participants in the CYCC to first be eligible to represent Canada in the WYCC, but it failed to receive a seconder. In reply to the suggestion, Bob Armstrong expressed his concern that "there could be a successful lawsuit to strike down a " residency " prohibition, that represses a Canadian permanent resident right, like playing in a national Canadian chess championship."