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View Full Version : 37B. Length of meeting - 7 vs. 14 days



Bob Gillanders
01-16-2011, 08:15 PM
I had hoped we had settled on 1 week.
But apparently the debate continues!

Your comments please!

Bob Armstrong
01-16-2011, 08:26 PM
I am against extending the meeting from 1 to 2 weeks.

I was Posting Secretary for the 2010 Spring and Fall Meetings, and I can advise that only 3 1/2 days are needed for discussion based on these meetings. Debate slowed down after only 2 full days. By the end of the third day, there were very few posts being made. Also, I see no need to extend the period for voting on motions - 3 days are set aside, and this worked for most governors. We had very high voter turnout. When we had to vote on motions though, during an extension of the meeting ( due to a motion amending a motion ), the vote turnout dropped dramatically - a constitutional amendment motion failed for lack of quorum.

In Oct. 2010, when Governor Garvin Nunes raised this issue, I did an analysis of it that led me to the conclusion that we should stick with one week - I sent it to all governors before the meeting. Here it is again:

Issue: Lengthening the Meeting time to 2 weeks

Response based on Analysis of Fall Quarterly Mtg. 2010 ( Oct. 1 – 12 )

Only one governor complained that his schedule caused him to miss the voting on four of the motions ( 2 on the original agenda; 2 arising out of the meeting ). Discussion on the four motions took place over about 3 ˝ days ( Fri., Oct. 1 to Monday, Oct. 4 ). Then voting occurred for about 3 ˝ days ( from Mon., Oct. 4 to Thursday, Oct. 7 at 11:00 AM EDT ). Attendance was at 70%, and voting was over 75% of those present. So for the vast majority of governors, the one week timing works.

The concern is in the lengthening of the meeting, we start to lose governors. Their regular schedules start to take over, and they give less time to the meeting if extended beyond one week. The following statistics ( as of 11:30 PM EDT on Monday, Oct. 11 ) make the point, for what is happening during this meeting's extension period of Oct. 7 to 12:

1. Only slightly over 50% of the governors attending voted on Motion 2011-A - 22/41 ( 54 % )[ one governor voted by e-mail, rather than on the Board ];

2. Since Motion 2010-03 as amended has been posted for vote, in the first one and a half days of voting, less than 50 % of the governors have visited the meeting ( 20/41 = 49% );

3. After 1 1/2 days of voting, only 37 % of the governors attending ( 15/41 = 37% ) have voted on Motion 2010-03 as amended.


So, there are serious downsides to trying to accommodate the very few governors for whom the schedule is difficult, by extending the length of the meeting – we start losing a majority of our attending governors.

I still feel this analysis is valid, and am against extending the meeting. I feel the reality is that we will simply lose governors - they will lose interest, and their regular schedules will start to take over and they will not attend in the latter stages.

Bob

Christopher Mallon
01-16-2011, 09:25 PM
But why not experiment with a longer meeting? BobA, you are inferring things but you have no evidence to support it.

In reality, the last meeting was only 3.5 days long - the amount of discussion there was! Then there was voting.

Why not extend discussion to 6 or 7 days, and then have voting start, and you can vote over the course of a few days after the end of the meeting. A 6+4 schedule might work?

Surely there is reason enough to experiment with this. Some items went to a vote when discussion was still going on.

Fred McKim
01-16-2011, 10:03 PM
I think a 10 day meeting would be OK, but 2 weeks is too long.

Aris Marghetis
01-16-2011, 10:51 PM
I think that the meeting should be more than a week long, as if nothing else, one week is the length of a standard all-inclusive vacation! This is not to mention all other kinds of situations where someone is unavailable for a week. For those people who find it very convenient to often be online, please appreciate that some people are not that online.

Egidijus Zeromskis
01-17-2011, 12:10 AM
With so many items, I prefer to have a longer meeting. I think the quality of the meeting would only increase.

Francisco Cabanas
01-17-2011, 12:20 AM
How about 9 days starting on Saturday and ending on Sunday?

Lyle Craver
01-17-2011, 03:23 PM
I don't have a problem with what Francisco suggests, but the extension in October was a major headache for those on the organizational side of things as it impacted the Thanksgiving weekend and got me in all kinds of trouble on the home front!

Fred McKim
01-17-2011, 03:30 PM
Lyle: I wonder if Bob G can just announce that the discussion will now last until Wed/Thu and the voting will go Thu/Fri-Sun.

I also think that we should close down all discussion on motions being voted on, once the voting starts.

Lyle Craver
01-17-2011, 03:32 PM
In theory I have no problem with that though in fairness if we're going to do that that needs to be stated in the opening comments so that all know what time is for discussion, what time for voting.

In other words, I don't think it's fair to do that in mid-meeting though I agree with you.

Fred McKim
01-17-2011, 04:10 PM
Since voting is by e-mail, I don't see why they couldn't send it early if they wanted to.

I thin kwe had very little action over the weekend, and things are just getting nicely heated up today.

Bob Gillanders
01-17-2011, 05:07 PM
The rules state that voting can't commence before 9pm on the 4th day. That would be tomorrow afternoon. That would obviously be too soon. The debates are just heating up today.

We should keep the discussion phase open until at least thursday evening. History has shown after about 3 days, the debates wind down. I think it will become clear when we are ready to vote. To play it safe, for those that can't checkin every day, let's say no voting until midnight thursday evening at the earliest.

I think we all agree, no new motions or amendments once voting starts.

Sound okay?

Fred McKim
01-17-2011, 06:20 PM
I think we all agree, no new motions or amendments once voting starts.

Sound okay?

I think there should be no further discussion on votes in progress.

Michael von Keitz
01-17-2011, 06:30 PM
How about 9 days starting on Saturday and ending on Sunday?

I agree with Francisco. I think at least one other person made the same suggestion in the e-mail chain started by Garvin. End on a weekend, when, presumably, we all have some flexibility in our commitments.

Ken Craft
01-18-2011, 08:52 AM
Fred wrote: I think there should be no further discussion on votes in progress.

Ken wonders if Fred has in mind a mechanism by which this could be enforced?

Bob Armstrong
01-18-2011, 09:10 AM
Hi Ken:

Isn't there a procedure on the board for " locking " a thread, so no more posts can be made on it? This could be used for the motion discussion thread - it can also be used for the voting thread once the voting instructions have been posted, since we are not using the Board voting format this meeting.

Bob

Ken Craft
01-18-2011, 09:18 AM
There might be Bob A but that will not stop discussion from taking place by those who truly want to discuss an issue.

Bob Armstrong
01-18-2011, 09:25 AM
Hi Ken:

If it is the procedure of the CFC, as duly decided by the Chair, supported by the governors, that discussion of motions ceases at the meeting during voting on them, surely we can hope governors will comply and not post ( they are not authorized to start new threads - the Chair decides that ).

And others can complain to governors who try to post, that they are the lowest scum!!

Bob

Ken Craft
01-18-2011, 10:32 AM
Discussion Bob A is not limited to this forum. I fail to see why there is so much concern about who discusses what when and who gets to see it being discussed. What are our fears of conducting business in an open and transparent manner?

Bob Armstrong
01-18-2011, 10:36 AM
..why there is so much concern about who discusses what when and who gets to see it being discussed. What are our fears of conducting business in an open and transparent manner?

Hi Ken:

I agree - seems a lot of overconcern on this.

Bob

Christopher Mallon
01-18-2011, 11:30 AM
Just close the official discussion threads. If people want to continue the discussion elsewhere, that's up to them.

Fred McKim
01-18-2011, 12:04 PM
Just close the official discussion threads. If people want to continue the discussion elsewhere, that's up to them.
This works for me. Discussions that are not involved in voting motions can remain open.

Christopher Mallon
01-18-2011, 12:06 PM
We should do an experiment too... make some kind of poll in another forum, close it, and see if people can still vote on it. That would be handy for the future.

Lyle Craver
01-18-2011, 02:34 PM
I would be against closing discussion threads this time since we've not advertised our intention to close them in advance.

I would favor opening voting on day 4 (or later - but 4 is what the enabling motion says) and closing discussion on day 7 and end the meeting on day 8 or 9.

That would be doable without causing an insane workload for the organizers.

Bob Armstrong
01-19-2011, 12:51 PM
I have mentioned previously that in my experience as Posting Secretary at the 2010 Spring and Fall On-line Meetings, posts slowed to a trickle after 3 1/2 days, the time the Meeting Procedures set aside for " discussion " - that is when debate on motions ceases and no more amending motions can be filed ( though discussion continues on other topics after the 3 1/2 day deadline ). So it was my opinion that governors covered most of what they wanted to say in that time period. And during the voting phase over the last 3 1/2 days I also noticed a significant drop-off in further discussion posts.

At this meeting, since we started at noon on Saturday, the 3 1/2 days was up last night,Tuesday night. It is my observation that since 6:00 PM last night, once again the posts have slowed dramatically in comparison to Monday and Tuesday. And today ( Wed. ) the posting has been relative light in the morning. So it seems to me that once again, despite a somewhat longer agenda than the first two meetings, most governors have by now made their points on the live agenda items, and are now just waiting to vote on motions. Bob G pushed back the start of voting 'til 12:00 AM Friday morning, because at the time, posting had been somewhat light on the weekend, and had increased significantly on Monday. We can observe the rate of posting today and Thursday, but I expect the posting will now be quite light until the start of voting.

I make these observations to reiterate my position that I think the one week period of the Meeting Procedures seems to satisfy the needs of the majority of governors. I feel that we don't need to extend the meeting time, based on the experience of our three meetings, unless today and Thursday prove unusually busier than I expect.

Bob

Lyle Craver
01-19-2011, 01:06 PM
Actually I've seen little input the last couple of days from other than the usual 6-7 people - this is not a good thing. I'd like to see a more varied response.

Patrick McDonald
01-21-2011, 02:37 AM
I am not even sure If I can post any discussion at this point? has it been cut off?

I have been unable to even glance at the meeting until now ... So in my situation, if discussion has already ceased then I get no input ...

the Idea of an online meeting was to be more inclusive, no?

Bob Armstrong
01-21-2011, 02:48 AM
Hi Patrick:

I'm sure Bob G will respond.

But he has ruled, as I understand it, that there is to be no more discussion of the Motions being currently voted on after the start of voting on Thursday, 11:59 PM EST. I thought the motion discussion threads that are being voted on, were going to be locked at the start of voting. I don't think that has been done though. As well, as of that time, there can also no longer be filed any amendments to the motions being voted on.

The Meeting Procedures had called for discussion of motions to end Tuesday night, but Bob G ruled that the voting was going to be delayed to Thursday night late, in order to allow for more discussion of the existing and being filed motions.

Bob

Bob Gillanders
01-21-2011, 03:18 AM
Well, I don't recall making any such ruling. :p

Nevertheless, it does not stop some people from putting words in my mouth. :(

Bob Armstrong
01-21-2011, 03:25 AM
Hi Bob G:

Sorry if I put words in your mouth !

I know it was certainly discussed at some length somewhere, but I'm not sure of which thread at the moment - and I cannot remember if you were at all involved or not - I'll accept your recollection of course.

I'll go hunt to see if I can find the relevant posts where some were advocating what I stated. I think Fred was involved - maybe he'd remember where it was?

Since it appears you didn't make this ruling, I'd urge you to make it now, and lock the discussion threads of motions being voted on !

Bob A

Ken Craft
01-21-2011, 08:25 AM
We don't make rules up in mid-meeting.

Bob Armstrong
01-21-2011, 10:10 AM
Hi Ken:

I generally agree.

On the issue of no discussion of motions after voting starts, the discussion, wherever it was, saw it as similar to there being no campaigning during voting in elections. And those of us discussing it, as far as I remember, had reached a consensus the idea was a good one. I think that we were thinking of having Bob so rule, on the basis of general ageement having been reached, unless someone objected. That's why I thought Bob G had in fact actually made a ruling. Anyway, I can't seem to locate the discussion. Someone else will have to find it because I've now got to leave the meeting. I think the Assembly should ask Bob to make such a ruling, in my opinion.

As to no amending motions after voting starts, that is in the Meeting Procedures:

3. Role of the Posting Secretary

The Secretary, or his/her designated alternate, shall be made a Governors’ Discussion Board Administrator. S/he shall post the meeting agenda, discussion threads and motion voting threads on the Governors’ Discussion Board as follows:

( i ) Posting of Meeting Agenda – .......

( ii ) Agenda Items – ...

( iii ) Agenda Item Introductions – .....

( iv ) Motions - ........After voting on motions has commenced, there can be no amending of the motion......

Bob

Bob Gillanders
01-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Hi Ken:

I generally agree.

On the issue of no discussion of motions after voting starts, the discussion, wherever it was, saw it as similar to there being no campaigning during voting in elections. And those of us discussing it, as far as I remember, had reached a consensus the idea was a good one. I think that we were thinking of having Bob so rule, on the basis of general ageement having been reached, unless someone objected. That's why I thought Bob G had in fact actually made a ruling. Anyway, I can't seem to locate the discussion. Someone else will have to find it because I've now got to leave the meeting. I think the Assembly should ask Bob to make such a ruling, in my opinion.

As to no amending motions after voting starts, that is in the Meeting Procedures:

3. Role of the Posting Secretary

The Secretary, or his/her designated alternate, shall be made a Governors’ Discussion Board Administrator. S/he shall post the meeting agenda, discussion threads and motion voting threads on the Governors’ Discussion Board as follows:

( i ) Posting of Meeting Agenda – .......

( ii ) Agenda Items – ...

( iii ) Agenda Item Introductions – .....

( iv ) Motions - ........After voting on motions has commenced, there can be no amending of the motion......

Bob

Yes. I agree we should follow the rules here.
Lyle - please lock the relevant threads.
In case it needs to be said again - no new motions or amendments once voting starts.

Fred McKim
01-21-2011, 10:30 AM
I don't think it matters where it is located, but I did suggest that we not discuss any motions being voted on once they went to the vote.

I don't think Bob G "made it so".

I have now voted, and I won't be commenting any more on the motions presently being voted on, until the results are revealed.

Bob Gillanders
01-21-2011, 10:43 AM
Thanks Fred. I think everyone will quite rightly stop discussing items for voting anyways, just the right thing to do.

I am exhausted. I hope to keep away from the board today (as much as possible) to recharge the batteries
and preserve what little sanity I have left. ;)